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August 12, 2009 03:46 PM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 50 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil.”

–Niccolo Machiavelli

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50 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread”

            1. I just can’t remember. I saw Geico on Huffington Post and right after that, another biggie and then Men’s Warehouse today.  They’re dropping like flies.

              And I should just admit that I’m so shallow–I was immediately sidetracked by the Red Lobster logo and started thinking about seafood and forgot for a minute what you were replying to. 🙂

            2. and according to Think Progress, Lexis-Nexis is the other company that pulled advertising so it’s four major companies now that are out.  

              1. Total so far, I think, who have pulled Beck ads:

                Men’s Wearhouse

                Geico

                Sargento Cheese

                Lexis-Nexis (Lawyers.com)

                Progressive Insurance

                Proctor & Gamble

                S.C. Johnson

  2. Dear Rep. Coffman:

    I am one of your constituents. I will be unable to attend your town hall tonight. I had hoped to bring my two young sons I’m taking care of tonight. They’re in Cub Scouts, and I thought it would be great for them to see democracy and free speech in action.

    However, I can’t take them to the meeting. I’m concerned that they will be frightened or even injured by enraged, screaming bullies such as those who have gathered and been allowed to hijack other Congressional town halls. I’m worried that they’ll come away from the meeting thinking that in America, it’s acceptable to interrupt and shout down others at public meetings, and that it’s OK to scream at our elected officials.

    Perhaps at the outset of your meeting you could let people know that there is no need to shout, scream, push, shove and intimidate, and that anyone who does so is only bringing tremendous disrepute and scorn on themselves and the positions they espouse.

    There is a famous Norman Rockwell painting, “Freedom of Speech,” that shows an American citizen – a common working man, judging from his threadbare jacket and hardened hands – standing up to have his say at a public meeting. He is speaking soberly yet respectfully. He is not screaming. His eyeballs and veins are not bulging out, he is not red-faced and foaming at the mouth. He is exercising his right of free speech. Around him are other citizens, mouths shut, listening to what he has to say, some apparently approving and some disapproving to judge by their facial expressions, but all giving him the respect that each of them deserves as American citizens.

    http://www.artchive.com/artchi…

    I hope that “Freedom of Speech” is what the Coloradans who do attend your meeting – who do not have children and who are not frightened away by wild-eyed, frothing zealots – will exhibit, and that they’ll model themselves after that inspirational painting. I hope the citizens who attend your meeting show each other, and you, the respect, decency and common courtesy that we all should show each other.

    Thank you.

  4. A bit of investigative journalism (Daily Kos diarist Eclectablog) reveals just how much of a hoax the right wing fury is…

    Remember that poor conservative black guy that was hospitalized at the Carnahan town hall over the weekend?  The guy who had been laid off and was uninsured?  Yeah, well – not so much.  Kenneth Gladney was videotaped after the event walking around with no problem; no-one knows why he showed up the next day in a wheelchair claiming injury – although it’s kind of odd that his lawyer attended the town hall event with him.  Gladney wasn’t just laid off – he’s been unemployed for a while.  And he is insured through his wife’s insurance.  So what’s he doing going around begging for contributions?

    Phony right-wing outrage fueled by phony right-wing performance artists…

          1. I’m pretty vocal about health care reform. My evil health care story involved my “great” BCBS policy in California that would not pay for care that was explicitly covered by my policy, which delayed their payment about 6 months per submission after all appeals were fought thru.

            I’m going to go to a Health Care Town Hall – if Rep “Industry Shill” DeGette will have one. I plan to ask a several questions about all the bills, including the stinking turd that the GOP laid on the House Floor Prior to recess. I will demand a public option.

            However, I was in the Obama campaign in Colorado -specifically the Vets for Obama.

            If I go, am I an “Obama Plant?” What’s the amount of previous contact and pre-meeting briefing that you would consider me a “plant?”

            1. But you weren’t a delegate for Obama, and most importantly, you’re not going to falsely identify yourself as a doctor.

              If someone told you you’d be called on and were given a question to ask, or if you get special preference in terms of admission in an open town hall format, it’s lame.  Common (both parties), but still lame.

              How’s that?

              1. If it’s DeGette, based on my previous emails and letters, I’m sure my request for a ticket to a town hall meeting will be placed in the metal circular file will all my other correspondence.

                If it’s Bennet or Udall, I MIGHT get in ahead of other people. If I get told I will cut to the head of the line, I will use it. If they tell me what question to ask, they’ll be in for a surprise.  

                    2. I’m not shrill enough to want to ask any questions in an aggressive manner.

                      If I really wanted to stick it to them, I’d ask:

                      How exactly are you going to pay for this, and are you concerned that the CBO projects a big deficit?

                      See  I’m a WILD MAN!

          2. I don’t think finding something as bad on the other side (if that’s even the case, not a given here by a long shot)) is a relevant response.  if you can’t discuss a particular case on its own merits then we  aren’t having a discussion.  Just trading Johnny stole a cookie too so there stories. Just once I’d like to see a rightie respond without reference to some  incident other than the one under discussion, when the one under discussion reflects poorly on a rightie.

            When the truth came out about Edwards’  sleazy affair, you didn’t see me excusing him by pointing to sleazy R behavior.  And there  was plenty available.  But that wouldn’t have been at all relevant in any discussion of Edwards’ behavior.   Just as your “response” isn’t relevant.    

            1. Because it’s in response to the accusation that ‘all the anger at town halls is manufactured, racist, nazi, etc.’.

              I think the “debate” right now is over semantics between the lunatic fringe of both sides.  Unfortunate.

                1. But the tactics are coming equally from both sides, IMO, and I think it’s presumptuous to discount the fact that there are a large number of people who simply don’t want another giant spending bill crammed down their throats in a hurry.

              2. You are the one who has been A) emphasizing one sidedness, placing all real blame on the pro reform side and B) insisting that only a few fringe elements on the right are responsible for what little tiny bit of harmless craziness there may be there.  You are full of your-side-is-worse-so-there garbage in answer to any facts presented. I’ll admit I’m the one who is an idiot for even bothering.  I’ll avoid that mistake from here on out.

  5. Hey Colorado Pols, why don’t you put the passage of healthcare reform on your “big line” list.  I know you only currently do state offices, but I think your line would be a fun thing to argue over.

    Personally I think the Congress is going to pass a watered down bill that doesn’t have a public option (co-ops or something instead).

    The big winner?  BIG MEDICINE!

  6. .

    I just got back.

    I went to a memorial service at the Soldiers’ Memorial Chapel on Fort Carson for 3 soldiers killed in Afghanistan this past month.  

    The Chapel was full of people showing respect, but well over 90% looked to me like Army families and their soldiers from the Post.  

    There was a grey-bearded motorcycle gang standing in the back.  Do people still come to protest at soldiers’ funerals ?  Anyway, there were no such interruptions today.  I salute the bikers.  

    Including them, fewer than 35 or 40 appeared to be from town.  

    This is a military town.  We should do better than that.  What’s it mean, wearing a yellow ribbon magnet on your trunk, when you can’t make time to show props for those who gave that last full measure of devotion ?

    .

    1. Most people, it seems, do appreciate our heros efforts but when it comes to putting their actions where there mouth is, fall dreadfully short.  It is like the parents I spoke with, who were big supporters of Bush’s war, who had a son who recently graduated from high school and did not want to attend college and could not find a job.  I thought I was being helpful when I suggested that he might talk with recruiters and consider the military.  To my absolute amazement, both parents jumped down my throat for bringing it up, saying that they both wanted to enjoy grandchildren in their old age.  Sad.

      Kudos to the bikers standing guard against the Westboro Baptist Church ilk who protest at military funerals.  And thank you, Barron for your attendance.  

      1. that funerals were supposed to be somewhat private, for family and friends.  Honestly I would feel awkward and intrusive inserting myself at such a time with mourning strangers.

        But I’m glad that there still is a guard against the Phelps clan for the funerals, it must be working because I haven’t heard anything about them in while.  And that’s a Good Thing.  

        1. .

          The remains were interred earlier, probably in their hometowns.  This was a memorial service today.

          I too wondered if this was open to the public, so I called the Fort Carson PAO.  Come on down, I was told.  This is a time for the public to grieve and show respect.  

          As mentioned below, I found out late.  I don’t know how to facebook or twitter, and cell phones make me nervous.  Maybe I would have been on time if I was better connected.  But I still belonged there, even late.  

          As SSG Dan can attest, Infantry is family.  Even 2 generations separated from the decedents in age, there’s a transcending connection.  And since I’m family, if anybody here feels inclined to attend such an event in the Springs, call me and I’ll go with you.  No political statements, please.  You’d be welcome even without me, but I can guide you through the jargon and culture.  

          You couldn’t look more out of place, or more awkward, than me.  When greeting the survivors, my voice didn’t work, I couldn’t breathe, I couldn’t talk.  Just sobs.  They understood anyway.  

          .

      2. The unquestioning loyalty to bush by mainstream republicans during the buildup, execution, and aftermath of the invasion of Iraq was matched only by these same patriots’ zeal in discouraging their children from taking part in it.

        Had go-arounds concerning this very topic with neighbors on both sides of me. Fight ’em there so we don’t have to fight ’em here…with somebody elses’ kids!

        Interestingly enough both these great “kill ’em all, let God sort out the bodies” Americans sought and recieved deferments during the late 60’s/early 70’s.

        The more things change, the more they stay the same.  

    2. …even though I know the answer.

      Has the Republican Representative EVER made it to a memorial service, deployment or re-deployment?

      I’ve been to a few soldier’s funerals. I can’t go any more.

      1. .

        though I guess I can’t stop that.  He wasn’t there today, but it wasn’t really well publicized.  

        The Gazette posted an article around 11:30 AM saying it started at 1:30 PM.  I saw the notice at about 1:15 PM, and live more than half an hour north of the Chapel.  It takes 10+ minutes to get through the gate.  So I walked in maybe 30-40 minutes late.    What struck me right off was that there was still a seat open in the pews.  That should never happen.  I praise God that I was able to fill that last hole in the fabric of support with my ample backside.  

        I probably go to 1 funeral a month for people who die of old age or long-term illnesses, mostly people my wife knows through church.  Including family, there’s usually only 20 to 50 people there.  No big deal.

        But I think a soldier who dies in battle for me and this community deserves to have the Mayor, and business leaders, and even some of those national religious leaders who make this town home, come out and pay respects.

        Golly, in our one debate last election season (Hal and I had a couple where it was just the two of us,) Congressman Lamborn said we should stay the course in Iraq, so I guess he should make time to make some show of support that actually costs him something, like an afternoon.  But if he fears for his safety, or if his staff does, then I excuse his absence.  This is looking like a dangerous time for elected officials to mingle with the public.

        The folks I really expected to turn out were some of the 50,000 local military retirees who want to stay the course on the wars.  Most of them saw zero combat.  

        They collect the retirement pay, they squawk about their peacetime-incurred disabilities, and they accuse me of being un-American for recognizing that our troops are fighting on the wrong side, for the wrong reasons, in Iraq.  

        Let me correct that.  Our SSAM are almost all good people, doing their level best under almost impossible conditions, who are required by our system of laws to fight to suppress civilian populations, to support ethnic cleansing, and to take sides in a civil war, due to poor leadership up the chain of command.  

        I would be more welcoming of that phony patriotism on a day like today, when the survivors, including a cute toddler with red curls down to his shoulders, deserve every bit of respect we can muster.  

        The 4th BCT is still in eastern Afghanistan today, and the entire rear detachment showed up, I’m sure.  I don’t want them there, doing what they’re doing, but they are there on my behalf, and I owe them this much, at least.  So does this town, this particular town.

        .

        2. B-X, there’s so much to that entry that I want to complement you on. Maybe just leaving it along is highest form of respect I can give it.

          Like I said, I can’t do this anymore. I love to go redeployments of NG and Reserve units, and I try and get to Cartoon when I can to see my buddy in 3BCT.

          But there’s too many memories of standing at Attention, listening to the Battalion (or Unit) Chaplain saying those words of Praise for the Fallen at another memorial service.

          I’m glad you’re going – maybe you can encourage more folks from El Paso County of all backgrounds (Vet and Non-Vet) to invest the time and compassion to go as well.

          1. .

            You’re already there.

            I’ve attended just a couple, since I’m so poorly wired in to the information grid.  

            Only one so far was for the son of a friend, and I sure couldn’t do many of those.  

            I broke down sobbing yesterday at the sight of that little boy, and I’d never even met anyone from the unit, let alone the family.  Then I got home and read he has 2 older brothers, and a sister on the way.  

            I imagine its another level of difficulty altogether when its someone you’ve served with.

            .

            1. In the time I’ve been on this blog, Guess is about maybe 2 years give or take, I’ve never read a series of posts by anybody that even comes close to heartfelt and honest words like these concerning the US Military funerals.

              These posts of yours have hit home like a baseball bat slamming into my ribs. Honestly, the last Military funeral I went to (for someone killed in combat) was in Coronado, California, summer 1970. 4 friends were killed in a huey crash in Vietnam. I graduated  UDT Training with 3 of them and was very close to all 4.

              Since I moved back to Colorado and just lived my life, my consciesness about these things slowly ebbed. I have always, will always revere all things US military. But this attending memorials is something I never considered.

              Even as I railed at republican politicaians and yakkers who ginned up the war for not doing it, I didn’t think to do it myself. Too busy? That’s not it. No excuse works.

              My life is made better by these people. I never thanked them.

              I need to start.

              Thanks, Barron  

                 

      1. .

        Military cemeteries are reminders that wars have consequences, as if that wasn’t obvious enough.  

        I spent 2 years in The Old Guard, where our main mission was providing military honors at internments at Arlington National Cemetery.  At the time (early 1980’s,) most decedents had died of old age.  There was a large unused swath down toward the Pentagon; I think it was called Sections 61 & 62.  

        It’s not empty any more.  

        .

      1. .

        I am not looking for all 50,000 retired vets to show; just 1,000 would do the city proud.  And there are at least that many in bars and poolhalls (metaphorically speaking) in the middle of the day.  

        But for a Mayor or a Televangelist, attending should be part of the job description.

        .

        1. Your point about the Mayor, business leaders or religious leaders coming is dead-on. Skipping lunch to pay your respects is hardly a sacrifice compared to the one these soldiers have made.

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