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August 07, 2009 03:43 PM UTC

Open Line Friday!

  • 94 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Courtesy RushLimbaugh.com

Comments

94 thoughts on “Open Line Friday!

    1. and the picture above has nothing to do with the article. He’s clearly equating Obama with the Nazis. This is worse than anything I recall Code Pink doing about Bush – and most of us on the left (myself included) found Code Pink to be douche bags. On the right they worship Rush.

      1. Is a response to Pelosi’s comment, and that’s very clear on his site – a piece of the graphic Pols shockingly left out.  He then goes on to cite similarities between the logo for Obama’s healthcare logo and a Nazi eagle something-or-other.  Stupid, yes, but he’s second to the party in terms of Godwin’s law.

        Here’s something else he mentions:

        Another similarity, Obama is asking citizens to rat each other out like Hitler did.  Obama’s the one that’s got the snitch website right out of the White House, flag@whitehouse.gov, asking citizens to report people who are saying weird, odd things.

        Weird, odd things related to a policy initiative, not terrorism or crime, mind you.

        1. Bush’s AG right after 9/11 setting up a program for UPS drivers, meter readers, and similar to become spooks to rat on Americans.

          Remember?  

          1. The program under Bush was to look for suspicious activity related to terrorism and crime, not opposition to a domestic policy initiative.

            1. Is it the end of your civil liberties? Hardly. I don’t think it’s trampling on anyone’s free speech for the White House to do opposition research. They’re just enlisting the people who worked on the campaign to help them to that effect.

              If this was the beginning of some sort of covert anti-conservative death camp rounding up, do you really think they would put it on the website for all to see? At least they’re not concealing it like Bush did with the FBI investigating anti-war groups during his first term.

              But I agree that it’s ridiculous. Considering how smart of a campaign they ran, it’s amazing to me that they’d do something like this in the way they did. It’s ripe for Pubs like you LB to cry Big Brother.

              1. I can’t take complaints about this seriously when they come from people who voiced no concern over the blatantly unconstitutional domestic spying W’s administration engaged in.

                1. My direct line is broken, so I’ll have to call his cell phone. “Hey Barry, what’s up with this crap”?

                  I’ll get right on it right after my weekly call with Merkel and Sarkozy.

                1. Did you even read my post, or just the first sentence? What I said was that the program was unnecessary at all, a silly way to garner opposition research, but that it was probably not an “enemies list”. Unlike the Bush administration, which actually sent the FBI to monitor anti-war protesters and come up with dirt a la Nixon.

                  As soon as you can show me evidence of this actually doing something other than the intended purpose, I’ll bite on your “you didn’t like it when Bush did it” BS.

                  Have you been rounded up by the Obama secret police yet because of that memo from earlier this year about right wing extremists? I didn’t think so.

                    1. Since you thought that what Bush did was A-OK, you should be fine with this. It pales in comparison.

                      Seriously Yokel, you accused me of being a hypocrite when I already said that it was a stupid plan. Just because I wasn’t fastening on my tin foil hat, and you are, doesn’t mean I disagree with what you’re saying necessarily.

                      You cherry-picked what you want to respond to. SHould I have said it was “hardly” a violation? Perhaps. But I don’t think it mandates a response like you gave it. I know you’re a reasonable person, and I think we can have a civil dialog.

                      I promise not to out-snark you if you promise not to do the same for me, deal?

                    2. I was merely pointing out that such an argument didn’t fly before (rightfully so) and ought not fly now.  

                      We have a deal.

                      What concerns me more than a Godwin’s Law breaking stretch on the imagery is the continued use of the “O” iconography.  He’s the President of the United States, and he’s using his personal “logo” to dress up White House policy?

                      First the White House (and not the DNC or another overtly-political interest group) running a war room on the health care argument (as opposed to the actual policy debate), and now this?  

                      He’s basically creating an Obamacrat Party with actions like this.  On the one hand,  it’s creepy and disappointing that one man could unseat 200 years of party tradition so easily, and on the other I’m kind of glad he’s doing Republican work for us in removing the Party itself from the picture.  

            2. Pelosi was speaking of an actual event with real people. Limpbough fabricated his obvious violation of Godwin’s Law.  Two different things.

              LB’s logic fallacies make me wonder who Penry had in mind besides himself when he said:

              “Republicans have lost all credibility over the past 10 years.”

          1. LB appearsto think he’s doing this defensively, but he seems to be defending against the straw man of the Speaker calling protestors Nazis, which I haven’t heard any cogent support for yet.  

            She seems to be implying that something other than grassroots interest in the state of our health care system is driving people to these events given the presence of some using swastikas to compare the the President to Hitler.  Mr. Limbaugh’s “rebuttal” is actually just an example of the very thing she appears to be referring to.  LB made reference to him being “second to the party” in calling one’s ideological adversary a Nazi, but that appears to be incorrect.

    2. I could be wrong, but I don’t think most people view Pelosi’s comments as saying the protestors were carrying swastikas in earnest as much as carrying swastikas claiming the President is similar to a Nazi.  Is Mr. Limbaugh really debunking this by saying that the President is similar to a Nazi?

      The implication from the graphic is that Mr. Limbaugh is comparing the Nazi movement to Organizing for America.  Is that not what he’s doing here?

      Now what are the similarities between the Democrat Party of today and the Nazi party in Germany?  Well, the Nazis were against big business.  They hated big business and, of course, we all know that they were opposed to Jewish capitalism.  They were insanely, irrationally against pollution.  They were for two years mandatory voluntary service to Germany.  They had a whole bunch of make-work projects to keep people working one of which was the Autobahn.  

      They were against cruelty and vivisection of animals but in the radical sense of devaluing human life, they banned smoking.  They were totally against that.  They were for abortion and euthanasia of the undesirables as we all know and they were for cradle-to-grave nationalized health care.  I have always bristled when I hear people claim that conservatism gets close to Naziism.  It is liberalism that’s the closest you can get to Naziism and socialism.  It’s all bundled up under the socialist banner.  There are far more similarities between Nancy Pelosi and Adolf Hitler than between these people showing up at town halls to protest a Hitler-like policy that’s being heralded by a Hitler-like logo.  Koko, do me a favor.  Pardon me, folks.  Private message here to my webmaster.  Koko, get the e-mail that I sent you today with the two logos.  Just put the graphic of the two logos on our website right now because Sweetness & Light is being bombarded.  Just put up the Obama logo and then the Nazi logo side by side there.  Just grab those two, put them up there because our servers can handle them.  Okay, Koko says he’s got it and he’s on the case.

      If the Speaker was suggesting the town hall protestors are similar to Nazis, then Mr. Limbaugh has a beef.  But as you see, Mr. Limbaugh put up this graphic for exactly the reason you’d assume.  To attempt to show the similarity (both in graphic design and belief) of President Obama and Adolf Hitler.  Is not bringing the headline over really the offensive part here?

    3. IT is the Nurnberg Eagle…..as “on the field Nurnberg Eagles”  I am an army brat….one of the high schools I went to was Nurnberg American High….we were the eagles and god damm Limbaugh…that is our eagle…..and he has desecrated it.

        1. Not the swastika….we were the sons and daughters of the men who won WWII….just kids…and our emblem was the eagle..  Sorry, I wasn’t clearer.

          For the record, Barron X, I don’t jost about the Nazi..not even for you and this blog.

          ..that scene is from Nurnberg….and I knew that field well ….

          That juxtaposition for army kids in Germany during the 40s, 50s and 60s ( which is my time in grade, so to speak) of playing on battlefields and making friends with german kids a few short years after  our fathers had been killing each other…was something I will never forgot…

          Plus it was stressed  to us, all the time,  that we were responsible to see that fascism/totalitarianism  never happened in our own country…..hence my overwhelming fear/concern about the propaganda machine which is talk radio

    4. I don’t find the logo creepy for it’s extra-quasi-Nazi imagery.  But I do find it creepy.  

      Is that a current, non-election logo?  Is he attempting to defend his official White House  (which has its own iconography, thank you very much) policy objectives with his personal iconography?  

      That, to me, is extremely creepy.  

  1. Here’s video of an SEIU member getting arrested for assault.

    If you listen you can hear the guy he attacked saying ‘You attacked me.’  To which he responds ‘You attacked America!’.

    Link.

    Also, keep in mind this was an event where SEIU members were snuck in a side door while people that had been waiting in line were denied entry.  Nice town hall, Dems.  

    There’s been quite the uproar here the last couple of days grousing about people’s free speech being shut down.  Has anyone come up with video where this happened?  I haven’t seen it yet.

    “The lady doth protest too much, methinks. …”

    1. Two approaches to political debate:

      1) Constantly argue, usually disingenuously, why members of the other Party are morally inferior, or

      2) Examine the challenges and opportunities that the state and nation face, look at the data, do the analysis, design intelligent policies, and take practical steps to advocate for their implementation.

    2. It’s going to be a long month. Tempers are flaring on both sides.

      Violence is beyond reprehensible, but there are other forms of violence besides the physical kind. I don’t think burning effigies of and making death threats to Democratic Congressmen are OK either LB.

        1. I’m merely pointing out that there obviously exists violence on both sides.

          Any political violence creates a chilling effect; when people see the SEIU jerk punching someone or a Dem Congressman being burned in effigy, that immediately makes people less willing to become involved in the conversation.

          And like I said, it’s early, I bet there will be a ton of screaming and yelling on both sides. The reason the left has chosen to attach itself to the “people’s free speech being shut down” aspect is because the GOP said they were going to do it. just because there isn’t a YouTube video yet doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened or won’t happen.

          1. They totally got a pass.

            And now, the Speaker of the House is acting like armageddon is upon us because there are grainy photos of two morons with hand-drawn swastikas?

            1. They certainly didn’t from me, but I’m just one person.

              Besides, the people who you are talking about (see: picture of the idiot above) are on the very fringe of the Democratic party, if not totally separate from the party itself.

              Now, you have Michelle Malkin, Rush Limbaugh and other prominent Republicans doing what only the fringe left would have dared to do under Bush. I mean, those two are as far right as they come, but they’re national figures. Show me Ed Schultz creating a Bush-Hitler logo, or Rachel Maddow posing with “Bush effigy noose guy”.

            1. LB, I have too much respect for you to have it pissed away in an insincere post like that.

              If you can scour the interwebz looking for YouTube posts of the Left acting stupid at health care events, but you somehow didn’t stumble onto this?

              (I’d link to RollCall.com, but it’s a stupid registration site. I’d like to use a non-partisan site, but apparently it’s not news..)

              http://thinkprogress.org/2009/

              1. Assault is assault.  Go to jail, just like those union assholes in the video.

                I’d guess assault on a Congressman carries some additional charges.  Good.

                1.    August 7, 2009

                     Dear Mr. Hennessy:

                     I am Kenneth Gladney’s attorney. Kenneth was attacked on the evening of August 6, 2009 at Rep. Russ Carnahan’s town hall meeting in South St. Louis County. I was at the town hall meeting as well and witnessed the events leading up to the attack of Kenneth. Kenneth was approached by an SEIU representative as Kenneth was handing out “Don’t Tread on Me” flags to other conservatives. The SEIU representative demanded to know why a black man was handing out these flags. The SEIU member used a racial slur against Kenneth, then punched him in the face. Kenneth fell to the ground. Another SEIU member yelled racial epithets at Kenneth as he kicked him in the head and back. Kenneth was also brutally attacked by one other male SEIU member and an unidentified woman. The three men were clearly SEIU members, as they were wearing T-shirts with the SEIU logo.

                     Kenneth was beaten badly. One assailant fled on foot; three others were arrested. Kenneth was admitted to St. John’s Mercy Medical Center emergency room, where he was treated for his numerous injuries. Kenneth was merely expressing his freedom of speech by handing out the flags. In fact, he merely asked people as they exited the town hall meeting whether they would like a flag. He in no way provoked any argument or altercation, as evidenced by the fact that three assailants were arrested.

                     We hope that Kenneth fully recovers from his injuries; however, he is in great pain at this time. We will be pursuing legal action at our discretion. This was a truly senseless hate crime carried out by racist union thugs. Regretfully, Representative Carnahan’s statements blaming Kenneth for being a disruptive force are wholly untrue and slanderous. We would like to think that an elected official in Representative Carnahan’s position would gather accurate information before carelessly rushing to judgment.

                     Kenneth supports conservative ideals, although he subscribes to no particular political party. We are calling on the SEIU, Representative Carnahan, and President Obama to condemn the racist actions of these union thugs. In the days to come, we will be investigating whether these thugs are working at the behest of Representative Carnahan and how strong their alliances to various organizations-such as ACORN-may be.

                     We hope the St. Louis Tea Party and tea party organizations around the country will protest Representative Carnahan’s offices and also protest SEIU offices in every major city across the U.S. These Democratic strong-arm tactics must end now.

                     Regards,

                     Attorney David B. Brown

                  1. I know that the SEIU are big Dem supporters, but this guy is being a complete asshole by calling this a “Democratic strong-arm tactic.”  

                    1. But it’s accurate in this case.

                      The SEIU was called out by the Dems and the Administration.  You reap what you sow, I guess.

                    2. It doesn’t wait for the Administration.  Once it was clear an attempt was being made to shout down health care reform, they went out on their own.  That, and a few of these “town halls” are on invite from the various unions, which puts them directly on-site for the event.

                      Violence is uncalled-for and unwelcome, no matter which side.  If true, this guy deserves a healthy assault-and-battery charge to think about.

                    3. It was organized from inside the party and set in motion by the administration.

                      I hope this guy sues the union for huge money, and I’d also like to see if they could be investigated under organized crime statutes.

                      Probably not this justice department.

                    4. neither was the five-day workweek.

                      The Voting Rights Act was not obtained by cowards, nor was the end of the Jim Crow era.

                      The end of the Vietnam war was not brought about by cowards.

                      Neither will be health care for all Americans.

                      Good for the SEIU.  They’re not going to be intimidated.  Neither should anyone else who believes in real reform.

                      Bring on your asshole meeting-disruptors.  There will be people there who aren’t intimidated by them.

                    5. are all gone.  They’ve been replaced by the fat cats, and the thugs who support them.  They have no interest in workers rights, just in how many workers they can get to fork over their wages.  

                      This was union thuggery in the classic mode.  And it may have been sanctioned and set up by a member of Carnahan’s staff.  Watch the second video as she takes a picture of the beating victim beforehand.  Was she making sure the thugs knew who the target was?

                    6. The Congress passed a law after the Oklahoma city bombings which allowed the use of  RICO…which is the organized crime legislation…against political groups if one of their members or someone associated with the group…however remotely..was involved in criminal activity…like bombing, or assassination of abortion providers.  I think that the Conference of Catholic Bishops was even wiretapped under this law….

                      Civil Libertarians, from all sides of the political spectrum, were involved in law suits testing the constiutionality of this law and the Supreme Court finally found it unconstitutional…a few years back.  

                      It is a fascinating study which goes right to the heart of the First Amendment.

    3. But I did see a guy wearing white t-shirt (a health care opponent?) get in the face of the security guard as the two union members seek permission to enter. And I see what look like a union guy already inside videotaping.

  2. From the signs I saw at the “rally” yesterday (more like a right-wing thugfest), I have to point out that all of the signs but one opposing the president used all upper case.  I’ve made a lot of protest signs in my time, and seen a lot of them and they’re a combination of upper and lower cases.  I think this is another indication that the GOP (or its highly paid minions) is being paid to provide materials to crash public events and meetings in a highly orchestrated attempt to quash any semblance of progress on any issue in order to bring down the president and Congress.

    This is partisan, folks, and the media should start portraying it squarely and clearly that way only.  There is no such thing as a “Tea Party” or “spontaneous” conservative anger.  They only act if guided.

    1. You are badly mistaken if you think all of this activity is ginned up by GOP groups.  Some of it is, to be sure, but the amount of real discontent out there in middle America is actually quite frightening.

      1. Ask anyone who is against Obama’s health care plan, and I will guarantee you that 100% of them didn’t vote for him anyway, so who cares what they think.  As Sen. Graham eloquently said, his side “lost the last election”.

    2. I wouldn’t possibly come up with the concept that capital block letters are easier to read than script without the prompting of Party astroturfers.  No way at all.  

  3. and as they say, the truth is usually the first casualty of war.

    While these media events are going on and won’t change anybodies opinion pro or con, rest assured the lobbyists are quietly at work influencing the decisions of the only people who at the end of the day matter.  

  4. Argue the “intent” all you want, but this leaves no doubt Obama needs a new graphic design team.  First the “presidential seal” fiasco during the campaign, and now this?  If you’re going to call for Polis’ head for doing the opposition’s work, you gotta do the same with whomever designed this graphic!   I suppose no one noticed the 3 star blue helmet backdrop in focus groups, either! Great!  Now Rush can claim the UN is in charge!  This is healthcare for 50 million people that’s at stake, not branding for a middle school election! Drop the cute and get real.

  5. I seem to recall that earlier this week Laughing Boy putting great significance upon the unemployment rate as a measure of the state of the economy. Well, it looks like it’s dropping.

    The nation’s unemployment rate dropped to 9.4 percent on Friday, an unexpected burst of good news for President Barack Obama after a very rough month for his agenda.

        1. … that it’s not “surging.”

          One report doesn’t equal a trend, but it’s fair lay to knock down the talking points with this report.

        2. I think Sarah Palin broke your heart…..and in your grief, you have turned on us, your buddies….

          We will hang in there until you come back to us….wiser, still a conservative, but not as trusting, no longer the innocent LB we came to know and love…

          we are here for you,

          1. It’s not that.

            I see the Dems really blowing it just like the Republicans did.

            The stimulus was rushed, political, and poorly written.  So’s this healthcare bill.  For a moment I really believed Obama’s ability to be post-partisan, but it was a farce.

            Palin’s a mess.  Not ready for prime time.

              1. I had high hopes for her after she dismantled Obama with her speech at the convention.

                She’s going to raise a ton of money for the GOP.

  6. is get on TV, but not a press conference. Since he’s taken office, he’s only done press conferences and hasn’t done one oval office speech. I think he needs to take away the “gotcha” opportunity that he spoon-fed the media with Gates-gate, and lay out his plan to the American people. Not in a glossy, produced infomercial like he did during the campaign, but a live speech face-to-face with the citizens.

    He was successful during the debates because of the way he was able to connect with people when he looked them in eye. I think that people need to see him in the oval office, and he needs to take control of the dialog again. Right now the GOP is hijacking the conversation with fear-laced talking points, and the MSM and even the Democrats are letting them.

    We elected Obama to lead, and he needs to lead on this issue. He needs to stop giving his opponents opportunity after opportunity, get the Dems in Congress to agree on a final bill, and get it done.

    You can’t tell me that it was easier to win the craziest presidential election in history than it is to get a bill passed when your party controls both houses of Congress.

    Really what it comes down to is that Obama needs to take a page from George W. Bush and Git ‘R Done. We didn’t need a cowboy on foreign policy, but Obama strapping on the six shooters on domestic policy may be exactly what it’s going to take.

  7. One of the reasons I like Jared so much is I am sure, if the townsfolks approach his house with pitchforks & torches, he will run out to talk with them.

    I drove by his townhall this morning. Way too crowded to get in – the Vics coffee outside area was packed shoulder to shoulder spilling out into the parking lot.

    I saw people holding signs both for and against – but just a couple of each.

    And it everyone was just talking to each other. It looked like a back to school night more than anything else. No shouting, no seperating into two groups – just a bunch of people talking.

    1. It was a usual thing Polis does where he talks one-on-one with constituents. An unusual number of people turned out, so many went away disappointed they didn’t get the chance to talk with Polis, but his staff passed out cards and said Polis would call anyone who took the time to fill out a card.

      1. I give Congressman Polis due credit, he’s standing in an open area, not trying to control who is and isn’t allowed to talk.  He’s doing his best to give people a chance to get their concerns across, not holding a dog and pony show.  

        You have to wonder how many of the so called “angry mobs” would still be upset if they just were given the common decency of being listened to rather than dictated to during a rigidly controlled forum by some of the other Democrats out there.

        1. For those that disagree with him on an issue or three, you still have to admit that he’s out there both listening and talking with everyone. And that is a key responsibility of an elected official.

          1. .

            I think that being accessible is important.  

            In Colorado Springs, Congressman Lamborn does not tell the public in advance of his “public” events, so he doesn’t actually have to talk face-to-face to any of them.  Before him, Congressman Hefley only met with major donors.  

            If people in El Paso County actually got involved and tried to talk to their “representative,” it would be a lot easier for a third party candidate to win.  People would realize that their Congressman really isn’t interested in hearing from them, and maybe those disgruntled voters might elect someone who is.

            Being in Boulder County doesn’t guarantee Jared’s safety.  Nuts from elsewhere in the state read the Internet and can drive to publicized events.  If he hasn’t had a security detail there in plain clothes protecting him, he ought to think about it.  

            .

  8. Link.

    Pay attention, America. This is a glimpse into the next three years of the Obama administration, at least using the same logic by which the Left accuses health-care reform opponents of “astroturfing”. If its policies get organized opposition, especially at events designed to allow for public debate, purple-shirted thugs will appear to crack heads and scare off the opposition.

    And if nothing else, it’s a great look at how the unions will act once the secret ballot gets eliminated from organizing elections.

  9. From the GJ Sentinel:

    White House officials have confirmed that President Obama has scheduled a visit to the Grand Valley for Saturday, Aug, 15.

    The visit is part of a swing through Western states that the president and his family are planning to take. Obama and his family will visit Bozeman, Mont., Yellowstone National Park, Grand Junction, the Grand Canyon and Phoenix.

    Also, a town hall has been scheduled for Aug. 15 in Grand Junction.

  10. It just keeps getting worse for this bill.  You’ve lost the debate on this one, guys.

    Man! What a Nazi the doctor in this clip is!  Obviously a plant.

    1. on some of the stuff I did as a teenager/early 20’s adult and wonder sometimes how I’m still whole.  I watch some of the stuff on video these days and wonder what they did to get the brain injury to try what they were doing now! (If that makes any sense)

      And I wouldn’t be to sure about your girls David.  I’ve known more than a couple of females who would do what the guys were doing just to prove they could!.

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