Sex Offenders, Thieves Hired to Collect Signatures for Ballot

And now...

Thanks to Gov. Ritter they can go into the bathrooms to collect signatures too!

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by: "The Blonde" @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 19:53:44 PM CDT

Both bathrooms

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by: "The Blonde" @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 20:16:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

zzzzzzzzzzz

What are you talking about?...I don't get it." - bjwilson83

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by: Aristotle @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 21:04:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Talk about collecting signatures

Not only do these guys have your address, name and tele#; worse, they have your job title, work history, seniority, productivity index, pay grade, co-workers names. They come to your house during your off hours to chat with you and discuss the collective problem and their card check solution.

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by: Libertad @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 23:55:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I love the scare tactics

trying to equate unions with mafia thugs.  So...1940s.

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by: streetcleaner @ Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:57:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Taking away the secret ballot - EFCA

Sponsored by Congressman Mark Udall.

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by: Libertad @ Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 00:28:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, well that's just lovely.

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by: GoBuffs @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 20:08:54 PM CDT

I can't get too worked up over this.

After all, your name, address, and phone number can be found, oh, in the phone book.  

True, a pretty woman's name doesn't have her picture in the phone book.  And I don't have a problem with people trying to make an honest buck. But maybe than could not hire people who have been convicted of crimes against people, as compared to property.  

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 20:13:56 PM CDT

It's not a matter of getting worked up. It's a matter of getting these

initiatives and amndments all thrown out.

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by: BlueCat @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 20:36:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Whatever it takes...

...right?

**Cough**ACORN**Cough***

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

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by: Laughing Boy @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:49:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually

Petitions do not ask for phone numbers.  

Want my vote? Put in some time with your party first!

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by: Dan Willis @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:16:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

refresh my recollection......

   Is one of these initiatives being pushed by a member of the Coors family?  One of the anti-labor one?

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by: One Queer Dude @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 20:27:12 PM CDT

Jonathan Coors, 28

channeled $200,000 to the right to work drive.  Exactly where that family money came from doesn't have to be disclosed, OQD.

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by: bob ewegen @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:25:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes

Coors is linked to #47, right?

And the story says it's only SOME initiative campaigns using criminals, not all:

Thursday, Mike Cerbo from Colorado AFL-CIO, which is a member of the coalition Protect Colorado's Future, said anyone who gathers signatures for Protect Colorado's Future has undergone background checks.

Cerbo told 9NEWS that Protect Colorado's Future is currently circulating petitions for Initiatives 74 and 76.

No signature gatherers for Initiatives 74 and 76 have criminal records, Cerbo said.

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by: GoBuffs @ Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 10:52:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

throwing out initiatives

The only legal requirements for petition circulators is they be 18, a US citizen and a Colorado resident. So, being a criminal of any kind is not a reason to throw out petitions or signatures.  yes, they do get personal information, and I do think there may be people who use that information in frightening ways.  But, there is no current legal requirement governing this.  Also, this is a very high turn-over occupation, and very hard for these firms to keep people.  This is a relatively low-skilled job which could provide much needed employment to a person coming out of prison.  The need for jobs for ex-offenders should be balanced with safety concerns.  And, as previously posted perhaps these firms should screen out crimes against persons, especially sex offenders.  

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by: waltzeswithdog @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 23:33:14 PM CDT

That's all well and good...

But as convicted felons, were these people ineligible to collect signatures, or is this just about the concern of having people who might have had a history where they might have been prone to abuse this type of information?

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 23:36:13 PM CDT

As convicted felons

I don't think the 9News story or the diary makes the claim they were convicted felons, though doubtless some were.

I don't run with a rough crowd, by any means, but my college roommate from years ago has a trespassing conviction on his record, for chasing the ducks at the Broadmoor after some shindig at the hotel. Now he runs a wildly successful Internet branding company.

There are probably some terrible crimes in the background of some of gatherers, but are we really saying that anyone with a misdemeanor theft or under an ounce of pot conviction can't get a temp job gathering signatures? Is that seriously what anyone's suggesting?

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by: RedGreen @ Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 23:50:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I guess my question is...

Is there any reason why these people were doing this illegally, or does this not relate to the fraud complaints at all?

IMHO, when someone completes their sentence, then they have repaid their debt to society.  Absent extenuating circumstances, I don't think they should be punished for the rest of their lives through denial of the right to vote or otherwise participate in civil society.

waltzes, above, says they only have to be citizens and residents of the state in order to gather signatures.  To me, that would indicate that the 9News story is more social pressure than anything particularly juicy on the case against these initiatives.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 00:23:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm with you 100 percent

This story is just intended to embarrass these particular ballot measures, it doesn't mean anything. Scratch any pool of temporary, low-skilled workers and you'll find some minor offenses. Fraud or perjury convictions might be pertinent to this job -- otherwise, the waiter taking your credit card up to the register to pay your restaurant bill has a better opportunity for identity theft. This is silly.

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by: RedGreen @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 00:58:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

One time at Microsoft

a group of us was eating lunch at a cafeteria and at the next table was a bunch of movers (for moving groups to different offices). The movers were all discussing the pluses & minuses of the various prisons in the state.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

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by: DavidThi808 @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:16:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sounds like

a group of Republican elected officials from Alaska.  

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by: RedGreen @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:10:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ha ha! That reminds me...

...of a good friend of mine did something stupid and he wound up in the Ventura County jail for ten days before I could get bail up for him.

He's a wonderful observer of the human condition, and that was one of them.  The jail birds sit around and discuss the pro's and con's of the various facilities around the state like it was an AAA tour or something.

Another thing he noticed was a lack of being able to think forward, which might certainly explain why most deterrents don'e work.  A guy had just been sentenced to 30 years and when my friend pointed out that he would by, maybe 62 when he was released, the guy was astounded.  

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 14:22:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's an interesting question

However, what's to stop someone from pretending to be gathering signatures who is really just looking for targets. No checking system covers that case.

On the flip side, as was posted above, your info is out there so all this gives someone is a face to go with the info. Still worrisome but if this avenue had been used by any low-life, it almost certainly would have hit the news.

So it's probably safe to say that it's very unlikely.

My recommendations in the 2010 primary?

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by: DavidThi808 @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 00:05:43 AM CDT

Is there anything illegal about any of this?

People with criminal records, including people who have felony records, can vote in Colorado, so long as they have completed parole terms, if any, and are not currently incarcerated.

I'm not aware of any law that requires petition signature collectors to be given criminal background checks.

Perhaps there is, I haven't looked it up and I haven't ever had occassion to do so.

But, there is no terribly good reason from precluding petition signature gatherers, who usually do their work in public view, in public places, from adults registered voters, from having never had brushes with the law in their lives.

God forbid that someone who has shoplifted, or stolen a car a decade ago, or been caught smoking pot, or was present on somebody else's property without permission ever collect a signature in his life?

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by: ohwilleke @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:48:29 AM CDT

Thre is no law forbidding criminals from being circulators

It is actually a profession that allows the person to move back into society after incarceration.

Want my vote? Put in some time with your party first!

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by: Dan Willis @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:18:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think the story is a bit misleading...

9News went after specific individuals who have criminal records and released their names and photos, but failed to explain which specific companies they work for or what specific ballot issues these guys were collecting for.

I think the real issue, which 9News glossed over and didn't plunge into at all, is that this just raises more questions about how the initiative process has been corrupted by paid signature gathering firms who don't give a crap about whether it's done the right way. It makes sense that they're hiring criminals if their primary objective is to gather the required number of signatures no matter the means.  

I should note, though, that not all signature collecting companies have complaints lodged against them; some do require background checks and require their employees to follow the law.

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by: bartlet @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:38:35 AM CDT

Beware of Kennedy Enterprise People Bearing Petitions

For those of you who claim paranoia on the part of those who are disturbed by this I offer the following:  

If you think all they gather is your signature then you are mistaken.  They have your name, address, and signature.  If you are not concerned about convicted felons having your signature copied for the purpose of fraud or forgery; then you should be concerned about them having all of your data available to them.  

In today's world of identity theft and the availability to sell your data to criminals that will use it to do same is a fact.  These individuals have recently spent time in prison.  They form relationships there.  They have friends that travel in the same circle of society (criminal behaviors). These individuals are not being paid a whole lot for their efforts.  For some the temptation will be too great.  

The bottom line is there needs to be standards in place that require background checks and disqualification for a felony conviction.  Leaving it up to companies such as Kennedy Enterprises or the Lamm Group is not working.  Expecting groups such as "Right To Work" with their amendment 47, 53 & 59, whose petitions this story was about, to make any effort to police the ethics of Kennedy Enterprises who they hired to gather those signatures and data is too much to expect.

They are more concerned about getting those initiatives on the ballot than about the potential damage it may cause to those who signed their petitions.  They used Kennedy Enterprises because they have a reputation of delivering.  Their tactics in gathering petitions are so shady that the get the job done.  That reputation is well known in political circles in Colorado.

There are a few firms out there that voluntarily do background checks and follow the rules laid out by state law.  They should not suffer because of this exposure.  They do it right.  However, as a result of their ethical stance they can't deliver as well, or as quickly, as firms like Kennedy Enterprises that can cut its overhead and bring in signatures faster by not following the rules.  The bottom line is the group circulating amendments 47, 53 and 59 that are backed by the Coor's family and other wealthy business ventures, know who they hired and could care less.  All they want is the maximum amount of signatures as quickly as possible.

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by: Mtnmike293 @ Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 15:01:00 PM CDT

Overall this is a problem for the Amendments

that were certified with the use of these former criminals.  Already there are allegations of fraud, and now this.  Makes the whole effort to pass 47, 53, and 59 that more difficult.

Fine by me, as all those Amendments should be defeated.

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by: streetcleaner @ Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:03:40 AM CDT

The biggest problem with these things

is that the people asking you to sign the petitions often don't tell you the truth about what you're signing.

After twice being asked to sign a petition for a ballot initiative, and being told that it was something totally different from what the written text actually said (once for the right-to-work thing, once for the anti-TABOR thing), I decided I won't sign any more, whether I agree with the initiative or not.  

"I am B.J. Wilson, and I am a troll."

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by: sxp151 @ Sun Jul 13, 2008 at 20:42:16 PM CDT

Good indication of intention

Having sex offenders, thieves, forgers, and convicted assault criminals collect these signatures is a prime example of how deceptive these initiatives and amendments are. Do we really trust people to write these laws if they can't do a simple back ground check on the people who collect the personal information of the citizens they represent?

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by: protectcoloradosfuture @ Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 12:14:38 PM CDT