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June 21, 2017 12:08 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 47 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society.”

–Theodore Roosevelt

Comments

47 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

    1. "Morality": does not mean what you think it means. You defend a little Calvinist set of principles about how marriage, sexuality, and love should work , and call that "morality". That Christian fundamentalism justified slavery, the subjugation of women, and genocide of native peoples. It is currently being used to justify destruction of the planet's ecology, and the concentration of wealth in the top 1% of people at the expense of the other 99%.

      PP, If your aim in trolling here is to preach your "morality" to the heathen Polsters, or even just to gloat in your own perceived moral superiority, you would have more credibility if you were to apply your own moral code to those in power.

      I'll take my lessons in morality from people who have a broader and more inclusive concept of it, which aims to guide us into a sustainable future, not a bleak dystopia.

      Higher Ground Moral Declaration

      We declare that the deepest public concerns of our nation and faith traditions are how our society treats the poor, those on the margins, the least of these, women, children, workers, immigrants and the sick; equality and representation under the law; and the desire for peace, love and harmony within and among nations. 

      Together, we lift up and defend the most sacred moral principles of our faith and constitutional values, which are: the economic liberation of all people; ensuring every child receives access to quality education; healthcare access for all; criminal justice reform; and ensuring historically marginalized communities have equal protection under the law.

      Our moral traditions have a firm foundation upon which to stand against the divide-and-conquer strategies of extremists. We believe in a moral agenda that stands against systemic racism, classism, poverty, xenophobia, and any attempt to promote hate towards any members of the human family.

      We claim a higher ground in partisan debate by returning public discourse to our deepest moral and constitutional values.

       

       

    2. There are 23 House districts nationally that were won by Clinton yet have Republican Representatives. I'm not sure how many more are in Republican districts with a margin of R+15 or so (the average overperform of Democrats in special election so far this year), but it's a lot – enough that some of the Republican gerrymanders might result in "dummymander" results in 2018.

      The numbers posted in these 4 elections this year indicate a Democratic wave; a backlash. And Democrats have record candidate sign-up. The VA elections this fall will be a more interesting gauge of how big this shift might be than a series of historically R+20 special elections.

  1. Seems the good people of Georgia did not take kindly to the Resistance and its assassination attempts.  Probably would have helped if the Dems did not run someone from outside the District.  Tough to pitch that the campaign is about local issues when you are not local.

    A few years back the Dem spent $1000 and lost to an incumbent by about 20%. This go round they spent $30 million and lost to a rookie by 5%.  

    1. As usual, your facts are wrong, and your gloating interpretations serve your own narrow agenda. Handel was no rookie; she'd been Secretary of State for years, and was the original proponent of voter ID.  I notice that you are celebrating Republican ads like these:

      Here's how Handel won:

      “I think the shooting is going to win this election for us,” said Brad Carver, a Republican official in Georgia at the county and state level.

      A little-known conservative group bought a small amount of television time on Fox News over the weekend for an ad showing emergency crews carrying victims of the attack on stretchers. “The same unhinged leftists cheering last week’s shooting are all backing Jon Ossoff, and if he wins, they win,” an announcer intones.

      Ms. Handel’s campaign denounced the ad but did not call for it to be taken off the air.

       

       

      1. Actually, as usual, I have the facts, you have the spin.

        By rookie I meant she was not an incumbent.

        You do not dispute the facts I mentioned.

        I think the ad you mentioned stated what a lot of people were feeling.

        Ossoff came off as a nice guy, running on team Pelosi, supported by Bernie Assassin-types, which was a bridge too far for Republicans, who might have liked what he said, to take.

        1. Facts:

          Definition of "rookie": Newcomer to politics. Handel had 5 years as a County Commissioner and Secretary of State. She pioneered the voter ID rules and unsuccessfully attempted to purge thousands of voters from the Georgia rolls, based on having Hispanic last names.

          Spread: 3.8%, not 5%

          "A lot of people were feeling"? No. The "Assassination" label, which you are still peddling, is a blatant and cynical attempt to use a tragedy, insanity, and attempted murder to make political points and boost GOP turnout, through fear-mongering.  You'll never own up to that, of course.

          Ossof lived outside the district, which is legal under Georgia statutes.

           

          1. "Bernie assassin types….."  As usual, Andrew doesn't include the Oathkeepers and his fellow travelers on the far right wing militia thug circuit. Andrew can ignore the far righties all he wants, but he still owns them.

          2. I did not say rookie politician, but you knew that.

            The Bernie Sanders campaign worker was encouraged by the resistance movement to kill the opposition.  I don't need to sell that.  It sold itself.

            Handel outperformed Trump in the district.

            The violence of the left does not sell in middle America.

            1. And a Republican tax cut bill designed to let 45,000 working class Americans die each year is an example of exactly what?  

              The GOP playing hide the pickle with middle America?

      2. Hush mj.  Shillboy is thrilled to win a 4 pct victory in an ultra red district the Rs last won bby 23.  Plus, with no nnotice, they squeaked by by two percent in south carolina.   At these rates, shillboy's paymasters will lose the house and senate when they have to run in competitive districts.

        Your Dylan Roof Republicans are winning everywhere, shillboy! Keep spreading hate, celebrating murder and flying your confederate flag.  Don't change a thing!   And light another candle to your hero Timothy McVeigh of saintrd memory.

         

          1. You are right.

            There are about 27 districts in the County mover favorable to the Dems than the Georgia district they just lost.  They need to win 24 of them and not lose any of the districts they currently have.

            Piece of cake.

            1. Oh, but we're also counting your help too.  Very much appreciated 🙂

              The poll underscores the risks Republicans face in pursuing legislation for which opposition is creeping toward a majority of voters. The Senate’s so-far behind-closed-doors drafting process also complicates Republicans’ efforts to sell the proposal to their own voters — and there’s some evidence of slippage among the GOP base on the party’s Obamacare repeal bid.

              Among Republican voters, 30 percent disapprove of the GOP health care bill. That is up from 15 percent of Republicans disapproving in early May.

              Moreover, independent voters disapprove of the bill by a 2-to-1 margin: 26 percent approve, versus 53 percent who disapprove.

    2. None of the special elections for the U.S, House have been in anything but Red districts thus far and in each one either the previous incumbent or President Trump won by over 15 points over their Democratic rival or Hillary Clinton. Again last night as in the previous special congressional elections this year, the Republican won by 3 to 4 points in Georgia and by the same margin in a bright red district in South Carolina. I don't believe that bodes well for the Republicans in the 2018 congressional election. At the moment, they are barely able to hold on to very Republican districts.

  2. Georgia was a very expensive 5-point loss. But it just shows you – fight for every seat. You definitely can't win if you don't show up to begin with. 

  3. Democrats need a concrete message to the middle class.  The Republicans "health care" bill is designed to give families earning over $250,000 a tax break.

    A family of four earning $60,000 (i.e., two earners at an aspirational $15/hour minimum wage) pays $1,756 in federal income taxes.  We need a candidate that would cut that to zero.  Note that the family would most likely spend all of that $1,756 refund which would circulate through the economy.  The family earning over $250,000 would not likely spend any tax break they receive.

    We need Democratic candidates with the spine to make this simple message.

    1. A family that earns $250,000 is a benefit to the economy. They spend, save or invest, these activities benefit the economy. Spending is not the only factor.

        1. Also, at the state level, there was an op-ed in Sunday's Denver Post from the Public Policy Institute (I think), that pointed out that tax breaks are allowed in CO for contributions to the College Savings 529 program, regardless of income.  This is a nice tax break intended for low and middle income families to help offset college expenses.  But, of course, it is mostly used by those earning over $250,000.

          The same is true of pension income exclusions; i.e., it was intended for low and middle income retirees, but is also available to high income retirees.   The last I looked, it cost the state about $20 million to offer these tax breaks to those earning over $250,000 adjusted gross income.

          I think the Dems could find a better use for that $20 million.

      1. Pear — $2,000 in the hands of a working class family gets spent almost immediately in the local economy — food, clothes, medical care for their kids, perhaps a computer to help with their homework, all keeping the money in circulation.

        $2,000 to a wealthy family goes into a money market account, or perhaps to buy stock that another wealthy family sells on the open market.  Very little economic benefit from essentially stagnant funds.

        1. Ok, the middle class families spends the tax cut almost immediately. Is that the situation the middle class family wants to be in? I doubt it. We would all like to have a cushion in savings. Savings and investing is beneficial for the economy. Savings creates capital which is used by the small business to finance inventory, purchase new equipment, hire employees and other favorable outcomes. Wealth creation is good for the economy and good for you. Wealth destruction increase poverty. Not where we want to go.

          1. "Is that the situation the middle class family wants to be in?"

            You obviously subscribe to the Ivanka and Jared marriage advice: "Never go to bed poor."

            What a dumb ass.  You are the poster boy for GOP lack of empathy.

                1. PeePee looks at the world through a pair of stupid colored glasses.

                  In his world, trickle down economics actually works, though many years of evidence, culminating in "Brownbacks' Kansas Miracle" prove otherwise.

                  Ignorance can be cured….but not willful ignorance.

          2. Pear, the point being made at the top of this thread is that cutting taxes for the wealthy isn't "wealth destruction".  It is about where best to put our resources — a healthy workforce with thriving families, or giving the wealthy yet another break they don't need.

              1. So you sound like an Arthur Laffer acolyte (who believes the Kansas experiment failed because they didn't cut taxes enough), or as real economist might say Arthur Ludicrous. 

          3. Where is your empirical evidence that what the United States lacks is sufficient capital to fund growth? In fact, there is a problem with demand–and growth will come from putting money in the hands of people who will spend it. 

            There is so much capital sloshing around that Wall Street has to invent new things to invest in.

  4. Here's the con job Republicans are pulling on America, as Con Man Cory knows full well:

    “I can’t think of another piece of legislation of this scope and magnitude that affects so many people that has been drawn up behind such a dense veil of secrecy,” Ross Baker, a Rutgers University professor and expert on Congress, told the Los Angeles Times. The Senate’s former historian, Don Ritchie, says the last time one party tried to write such sweeping legislation entirely on its own, mostly in private, was World War I.

    It’s not hard to figure out why Senate GOP leaders are proceeding in the way they are. Although those leaders haven’t indicated how they intend to resolve some key issues, the ultimate impact of the bill is already clear, as HuffPost’s Jeff Young has written. That proposal would take away insurance from millions, remove consumer protections that people value, and push insurance in the direction of greater exposure to out-of-pocket costs.

    None of this is popular. None of this is what Republicans promised to do. Debating their bill openly would force them to admit that, and so they are trying to avoid public scrutiny for as long as possible.

  5. Scott Tipton (CD3)v has a telephone town hall next Monday. To sign up, you must  call his DC office by Friday at noon.

    Tipton To Host Telephone Town Hall

    Posted on June 21, 2017 by | Leave a comment

    Congressman Scott Tipton will host a telephone town hall meeting next week. The town hall will take place Monday starting at 6 and all from our area are invited to participate. Tipton says that while it’s not always possible to visit all of the 29 counties he represents as much as he would like, the telephone town hall will give all constituents the opportunity to ask questions about his work in congress. Those who would like to participate should call Tipton’s DC office to RSVP no later than noon on Friday. To register for the town hall, call (202)225-4761.

    Constituents should ask about Tipton's baffling switcheroos on repealing the Affordable Care Act, and keeping protections for those with pre-existing conditions. They should also ask Tipton to stop misinforming his constituents about the effects of the CHOICE Act, which he voted for.

    Tipton, and fellow Congressman Ken Buck, have also been promoting the idea that the CHOICE act would somehow help "community banks", and bring back free checking accounts.

    The CHOICE act will repeal most of Dodd-Frank's limitations on Wall Street speculation, is basically a gimme for big banks, and will gut the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

    Tipton's piece in the Vail Daily

    Ken Buck's piece in the Greeley Tribune

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