La Raza: Tancredo "Defamed Our Organization"

does not compute

.
I grew up in Colorado.  I was exposed to "la Raza" growing up.  It was dedicated to racial themes, racial discrimination, racial superiority, and violence against "gringos" who had allegedly taken their land.  It advocated rebellion and violence.  It advocated secession.  

OK.  They've created new corporations and new names and new identities.  That's what political movements do.  But this is dishonest, to hide or deny the roots of the movement.  

Without doing any research, I assume NCLR was created as an offshoot to start fresh, to make a clean break from the overt racism and hatred of the original "la Raza."  If so, good for them.  But where did they come from, and what are their philosophical foundations ?

Please don't refer me to a Wiki entry written by the PR folks at NCLR.
.

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by: Barron X @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:06:01 PM UTC

Tell me Baron X, where did you grow up?

Did you grow up in Denver where people with Mexican ancestry were subject to jim crow laws, and where the federal court had to step in to desegregate dps and guarantee that kids from spanish speaking homes were not discriminated against? Are you familiar with the final outcome of the suit against the owners of the Taylor Ranch in the San Luis Valley?  "allegedly taken their land???

What about New Mexico where people of Mexican ancestry did have their lands taken from them when the anglos moved in in the late 1890s?  Where banks refused to loan money to Hispanic..including student loans???

Or Texas, where the legacy of slavery (which is what the Almo was all about) covered americans with mexican ancestry......and the Texas Rangers routinely beat up hispanic kids...

And you, Barron X, did you  call some kid "beaner"  or worse, and get your ass handed to you on a platter.....is that what happened?
North Denver rumor is that is what happend to little tommy tancredo....and he was so "upset" he escaped the draft because of his emotional problems..

Diganos, Barron X....where were you?


 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

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by: dwyer @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:33:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Everything you say is true, but it doesn't mean Barron's is false.

He is raising issues about the organization, not what might the need for it.

I've heard similar charges about La Raza.  I honestly don't know one way or the other, but I'm willing to learn, one way or the other.  Or both ways.  

"Politics determines who has the power, not who has the truth." Paul Krugman, 9/2010

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by: parsingreality @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 19:58:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

heard similar charges about La Raza

Different organizations have used the phrase "La Raza" in their names over the decades. The National Council of La Raza, which is the organization Sotomayor belongs to, isn't the group Barron remembers.

It'd be like conflating the Knights of Columbus and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan for no reason other than the groups happening to share a word.

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by: RedGreen @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 21:14:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Donde??......

Es pregunta...

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by: Ben Stein's $$ @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 21:06:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Okay, I just reread your post. X

When and where in Colorado???  

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

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by: dwyer @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:35:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

dwyer, you seem very emotional about this

Facts: Sotomayor will CA Roll the STOP signs that the GOP puts up and will motor right through the strawman YIELD signs the Democrats construct for media purposes.

Unless there are a pattern of unknown racist "secret" tapes that the media can make a case around, I don't see her failing to be seated.

On the other hand: If a GOP nominee been a member of say the Minuteman group, they'd be denied access to a hearing at all.

I think Barron is inquiring about this advocacy group - La Raza - and whether or not its roots come from racist principles.

La Raza should exit the closet and confront this issue with the national media. If they would spend $100,000 on some out reach, it could do wonders for La Raza and help one of its members be seated with dignity.

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:07:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Uh? Libertad?

I have no idea what this means....it does appear to be an attempt to be clever...I just cannot decipher it. ayuda, pro favor.  I use the spanish because I assume that that is your heritage,given your tag.

Facts: Sotomayor will CA Roll the STOP signs that the GOP puts up and will motor right through the strawman YIELD signs the Democrats construct for media purposes

Emotional? Moi?  I get pissed off at crap...and, as I have mentioned, my household is one of many colors...

It amazes me that everyone acknowledges that Indians, African-Americans, and Mexicans have been subject, not just to discrimination, but geneocide, slavery, colonaization, exploitatin, etc....and yet, when we finally hear the voices of these communities....the self same "everyone" is "shocked,  schocked" that a lot of these minorities are pretty damm angry and shout from that perspective..

Define a "racist" principle.   I, for example, was not allowed to hold office...as a kid...in any "Y" organization because I was at the time a catholic.....of course, that has  changed now....I don't know what the "y" did with minority kids or jewish kids....but what about the "y"...

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

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by: dwyer @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:56:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I really think it's time

people just stop replying to Libertad.  I honestly have no idea why he's not just banned.

"Apple denies that, based on their common meaning, the words 'app store' together denote a store for apps"
-- Legal filing by Apple Computer

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by: cdsmith @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 22:49:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm a proud Billy Mitchell grad.

.
class of '71.  
UCCS, 1978.
CSU-Pueblo, 1995.  

I used to be up on the story of the Taylor Ranch.  I'm afraid that I couldn't recite details at this time, but as I recall, a Judge decided that the locals had a legitimate interest, rights to hunt and forage, something like that, due to arrangements dating back to before the Baca Land Grant.  
I actually have a Deed somewhere in the house that goes back to that document.  

Irredentism isn't so black-and-white for me.  
For purposes of disclosing my prejudices, my grandparents had names that are identifiably French (Acadian,) English, Scot and Irish.  
My Dad grew up poor, without a Dad of his own, an ethnic gang tough in Boston.  My Gramps was out of the country for years at a time.  I'm proud of what he made of himself.  

I am troubled by English occupation of Northern Ireland, US disposession of lands from the indigenous peoples during Westward Expansion of the 1700's, and the plight of the landless Palestinian people.  
I am sympathetic to the complaints that the Republic of Texas stole land from the natives, and that the treaty ending the Mexican-American War of 1848 was unjust.    
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
Historically, many great fortunes were built on theft, expropriation and colonial exploitation.  It ain't right.  But how do we fix it ?  What is a just resolution ?  

To an extent, the folks in power today, and folks who inherited great wealth, around the world, are the beneficiaries of those  historical wrongs.  Bush ancestors trading with the Nazis.  Rockefeller and Ludlow. and on and on.  

I want Justice.  But I want Peace more.  Folks who inherit wealth and position believe it is the Will of God that they be elevated above the masses.  Sorta like movie stars, except that movie stars actually fought and clawed for what they've got.  

I think it's unlikely that many of them will acknowledge the sordid history of their current status.  Impossible that they will voluntarily give up power or wealth to be used to make reparation.  
So the challenge is to find a way to provide Justice from this point forward, and limiting how much we try to reach back in time to achieve it.  

The "la Raza" I knew years ago was determined to take back what they thought was rightfully theirs.  That would require a rebellion, a revolution.  They were OK with what that entailed, the death, destruction and misery, because of the Justice it would produce.  
But the culpability of the father does not become the culpability of the son.  

By the way, the derogatory epithet I heard used was "wetback," not "beaner."  I guess its a regional thing.  I think the idea was to deride someone for having the initiative and courage to cross the Rio Grande to find a better life.  As insults go, not the smartest one I've heard.
.

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by: Barron X @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:06:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Have you even bothered to look at their website, you total freaking moron!

Wow - just keep on slandering NCLR and driving more and more and more Hispanics out of the Republican Party. You idiot.

Hey everyone else: go to www.nclr.org and see what the National Council of La Raza really is, and who supports and cooperates with it: the U.S. Marine Corps! Wal-Mart! Republican commentators!

Everyone with half a brain knows Tancredo is an irresponsible dick who has caused tremendous damage to the GOP. This latest just proves it again. But the fact that Barron, Libertad and so many others are trying to apologize for him - wow...

But as a Democrat, I should give profound thanks to Barron X and Libertad and ask them to keep on posting! You're ensuring that the GOP will remain a minority party for, oh, the rest of history.  

"Why not do the right thing for the American people, even though it's not exactly what we want." - Speaker Boehner

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by: Half Glass Full @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 22:44:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Barron's not a Republican

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by: redstateblues @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 06:35:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

hold this against me, by all means.

.
But it wouldn't be fair to the GOP to hold it against them, since I'm not a member.  

And I don't speak for the conservative party to which I do belong, the American Constitution Party, in this matter.  

It wasn't a party that grew up witnessing outrageous conduct by Caucasians, Blacks and Hispanics, right here in River City, it was me.  
It wasn't a party that was intimidated by a group that self-identified as "La Raza," which I now (thanks to R/G) believe was La Raza Unida, it was me.  
It wasn't any party that was subtly threatened with death by a coworker at Fort Carson simply for not being Hispanic, and therefore an "invader," it was me.  

I am not Tom Tancredo.  I am not defending him.  I am just saying what I experienced growing up here in Colorado.  

I'm glad that most young people didn't have to go through that.  If a person cannot believe that something really happened if it didn't happen to them, and if that makes me a moron, then so be it.  

For me to confuse two different groups that both call themselves "La Raza" is an error, to be sure, but methinks an excusable one, by reasonable people.  

I'm not saying that that is what happened with Tancredo, nor making an excuse for him.  I don't know what his background is.  As of this writing, based on other posts here, I think he may have lifted his line of argumentation from a White Supremacist website.  I sure don't mean to validate any White Supremacist movement.  They offend me even more than a Hispanic racist movement, if only because elite Caucasians in this country have used and abused people of color right from the start.  Of course, elites don't join such organizations or overtly participate; the most they'll do is help to fund them.

.......

The willful ignorance of our recent history, as exemplified by the post above RSB's, pretending that there is only one group "La Raza," and I assume further pretending that there are no racist or separatist Hispanics, that too can affect electoral politics, at least among those who know better.
.

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by: Barron X @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 12:57:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Baron X, Thank you

I appreciate your very thoughtful response to my question. I think that we have to be very careful here not to fall into a very profound philosophical discussion, perhaps even without epithets...

First, of course,  I hold with those who say "Without justice, there is no peace."  However, your choice is one I appreciate, albeit in another country, it was my own conclusion.  Working in Colombia, i raged, fruitlessly, against the exploitation of the poor, and their desperation.  At one point,  I felt that it would be better if the country was violently torn upside down and that the rich would be on the bottom and the poor on top.  Given that, I too, am a CU grad, I was able to recognize that that is Marx.....I felt at one with that Communist.  Then, true story, FARC hit just north of where I was working.  They targeted barefoot peasants on a market bus...killed over fifty of them....it was a strategic kill because it rendered the roads unsafe...(much like hijacking three airplanes brought down the whole US air transport system after 9/11...for a few days.)  So I felt the terror of the poor around me.  We were all vulnerable and I rejected, personally, the philosophy of violent revolution...

Moving forward.  You have described, far better than I, the injustices done in this country.  Now, this is what I believe.
That the call lies with the victims....it is their choice what
to do ...the law, civil disobedience, political power gained through the system, or violent revolution.

I believe that the unique achievement of the US is that there is a path which allows grievances to be resolved peacefully and redress awarded.  That is the  legal system laid out in the Constitution.  As long as people feel that they have a fair shot to change things legally, we won't have to deal with violent revolution.   Our legal system is unique among nations, historically as well as contemporarily.

This is why, over and over, again, I protest any attacks on the independence of our judiciary.  I rage against the control of public airwaves by one party.  The separation of church and state is sacred to me.  

That is it.  As for "beaner," the real term I heard was far more offensive.   We can't control what other people do.

Final question:  Did you support the IRA?  I had one kid who carved "Brits out of Ireland" on his desk....I didn't even know he knew he had Irish in his background.

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

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by: dwyer @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 14:03:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I have never supported the IRA

.
I have no right to decide who's really a "Catholic."  But the root of Catholicism is the teaching of Jesus Christ, and I do not believe he would approve of their methods.  

I assume that a lot of Colombians are Catholic.  That business about turning the other cheek, some folks think that's about inner strength and declining to retaliate when one has the power to smite one's adversary.  
Maybe.
I don't think that's the point.  I think we are taught to turn the other cheek because there is no end to a cycle of violence, it doesn't even end when there's a death.  It just jumps to the next generation.  I think the teaching is to accept injustice and still find peace.  
I think action movies where the good guy gets wronged, but gets his comeuppance in the end, are fun.  I enjoy them, especially the ones where guys who dodged the draft in the 1960's and early 70's play Vietnam war heroes.  
But I think that message is anti-Christian.  It certainly goes completely against the teachings of Buddha, which is in many ways compatible with Christianity.  

I want the Brits out of Ireland.  I want them to leave because they've been shamed into leaving, as when they left India.  

I want justice for the Navajo and Hopi.  I can't see a way for that to happen.  
I want peace and justice for Jews, but that too seems improbable.  And for the Palestinians.  

I don't believe in ultimate solutions.  I think it takes hard work every day to make the world better, and I think we are behind a couple days in that work.  
.

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by: Barron X @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:43:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

good god, X, I agree with much of what you say.

I am still reeling from that shock.  Let me be clear, on one point. I spoke of my own personal conclusion while in Colombia.  I can not speak for Colombians. It is their country and their risk and their decision.  If I appeared to be speaking for them, I gave the wrong impression.

However, in each of the cases you mention, it may not be up to the United States or its federal government to decide how peace/justice will be sought.

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

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by: dwyer @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 13:28:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

But the bottom line is these kind of statements are driving Hispanics away from the Republican Party

Even if, as you outline, La Raza held such views forty years ago, they don't today and that is what matters. Rep. Tancredo seems to indicate that La Raza today is racist and akin to the KKK. That kind of unfounded and inflammatory assertion may set well with the very narrow base of the Republican Party but it does nothing to either expand it or provide a real dialogue for debate.

The Republican Party has degenerated into a group of ideologues who literally make things up as they go and therefore are continually undermining their credibility. For example, this week Republicans accused President Obama of using the Chrylser bankruptcy as a means of putting Republican car dealers out of business. That assertion stood up for about thirty seconds until political contribution records established that almost 90% of America's car dealers give primarily to Republican candidates. In short, with Chrylser closing over 800 dealerships there isn't any way most of them won't be owned and operated by Republicans. That assertion turned out to be just another unfounded flimsy conspiracy theory from the right-wing.

Another example, this week Laura Ingraham, a conservative talk show host and a lawyer, made the unbelievable statement that waterboarding wasn't torture because we only did it to three people. As someone aptly pointed out, based on her logic if I go to my neighbor's house and shoot him, then go to another neighbors house and shoot him and go to a third neighbors house and shoot him, it isn't murder because I only did it three times. Ingraham's logic is the kind of argument you hear from seven year old children.

Denying facts and basing positions on pure ideology is a formula for very bad policy. Until the Republicans can reneter reality they cannot be trusted with the reins of government.

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by: Republican 36 @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:36:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

ADL has many corporate sponsors, what corporations back La Raza?

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:09:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Too many to list

Download this PDF and then look at all of pages 42 and 43. Looks like it's about 200.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

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by: sxp151 @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:16:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nice

Not too many bailout recipients on the corporate board either!

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:31:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

La Raza should use their Corporate Board members for an outreach campaign

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:47:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

La Raza isn't the organization that needs to commit to significant outreach

Its the Republican Party that needs to do that and soon.

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by: Republican 36 @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:02:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah but I think Libertad has a good point

Right now is an opportunity for La Raza to show who they really are, after being completely slandered by Tancredo.

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:05:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I respectfully disagree

Rep. Tancredo made the allegations about La Raza and the burden of proof rest with him to show us that it is racist and presently promotes violence.

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by: Republican 36 @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:20:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You have a good point there

If Tancredo were halfway honest (or even lucid for that matter) he would put up or shut up.  Credibility dosen't figure into on air discourse anymore - any clown will do for the circus.

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 19:42:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This at least someone can take at face value

Without doing any research, I assume....

At least it is kinda an admission that you don't know what you are talking about. The rest of your comment is a lot of dusty and unsupported claims, followed by a demand that the rest of us should go do your homework for you. Weak stuff, Barron.

You should know that "La Raza" is a term and a concept that has been widely used since before the Great Depression, with various meanings and to various effects by various movements and individuals. It is not the exclusive domain of one particular group that didn't exist until the mid-seventies. So adopting Tom Tancredo's method of just making shit up may or may not help him poison the well a little bit, but it isn't rational argument.

And Tom Tom's attempt to recycle Stormfront conspiracy theories into mainstream news outlets doesn't deserve water-carrying from anyone. You should be above that.  


"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid." - Nietzsche  

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by: twas brillig @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:54:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What a strange post

I grew up in Colorado too, and never had any of those experiences.  Could you have run into a few off people and generalized?  Were they pulling your leg?  Were you especially provocative?

Because IME La Raza was just a club, like society of women engineers or the ham radio club.  You know, a place to hang out with people of similar interests.  Not generally plotting the overthrow of the country.

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by: Emma Anne @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 17:00:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not like the ham radio club

I have not read a single piece in which La Raza talks about prostate problems or its most recent surgery.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

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by: Ralphie @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 18:39:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

TRust me, Emma Anne

Back in the sixties....there were many groups under many names who were angry and talked violence...

New Mexico had a group which "invaded" federal forest service  land and tried to take it back...

people who remembered threats from those times are not making it up or just ran into a few bad apples....

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

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by: dwyer @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 21:11:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Barron, you actually think that there are Latinos secretly planning "la Reconquisita"?

   Maybe the Salazar brothers, as sleeper cells planted by La Raza in the U.S. government, will return title to the southwestern U.S. to Mexico.
  I'll need to change my name.  How does Uno Joto Vato sound?

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by: One Queer Dude @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 17:40:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wal-Mart is a terrorist sympathizer! And so is Ford!

Since Wal-Mart and the Ford Foundation are both major contributors to the entirely non-controversial National Council of La Raza.

Hey Barron - if NCLR was remotely controversial, don't you think one - ONE! - existing Congressman with remotely respectable credentials would have pointed that out?

Perhaps you should go to the National Council of La Raza website itself. Where you'll see that other organizations cooperating with La Raza include Republicans, the Marine Corps, etc. etc.

Source (no, not Wikipedia): http://www.nclr.org/section/ev...

NCLR is entirely non-controversial. It's like the NAACP for Hispanics. For Tancredo to call it "the KKK without hoods and nooses" was really despicable.

You are really a moron sometimes. And the fact that you and others even for a MOMENT seem to be sympathizing with Tom Tancredo is totally dooming the Republican Party for years to come.

"Why not do the right thing for the American people, even though it's not exactly what we want." - Speaker Boehner

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by: Half Glass Full @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 22:39:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Without doing any research, I assume..."

Without doing any research, I assume

You guys have been doing a lot of that lately: NCLR, whether waterboarding actually works, WMDs, Iraq-Al Qaeda connection...

No wonder you're losing so much credibility with the American public.

"Why not do the right thing for the American people, even though it's not exactly what we want." - Speaker Boehner

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by: Half Glass Full @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 02:08:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

maybe you don't know who I am.

.
I opposed the invasion in 2002, and worked with officials of the Saddam government to try to get the US government to negotiate a deal.  Saddam was willing to step down and go into exile, and let Bush hand-select the next government of Iraq.  Bush rejected the offer.  You may recall that Tony Blair asked him why he turned down the offer of victory without firing a shot.  

I made 3 trips to see Joel Hefley and to present him with a letter from an Iraqi official.  When he found out what I was up to, he refused to see me.  

The WMD and al-Qaeda connection are red herrings.  
Bush never believed them.
If he wanted to take over Iraq without going to war, he had that option.  

Here's the thing: he didn't really care who we went to war against, he just wanted to still be at war when the 2004 election rolled around.  America has never rejected an incumbent president while at war.  
His Poppy won a war against Iraq, but it was over and forgotten by the time of the 1992 elections, and he lost.  Junior was not going to repeat that mistake.  

The Iraq War was simply part of a reelection campaign.  

If someone is defending or supporting the Iraq War, how can you possibly think they are a conservative ?  Just because Rush says so ?  That's the only thread that these phony-cons have to hang by to call themselves conservative.  
A war of choice to sway an election is NOT in keeping with our Constitution.  How else can I say it ?  

..................

I am a staunch advocate for the Hague and Geneva Conventions, what I call the Law of Land Warfare.  I'm an infantryman.  That's who that body of law is intended to protect.  Ground pounders.  

Waterboarding is morally reprehensible to me, and to all conservatives.  
You are confusing the GOP with conservatives.  The error is understandable.  Many GOP faithful incorrectly believe that they are conservatives.  If they put loyalty to Bush and the GOP ahead of loyalty to the Constitution, as many do, then they are not really conservative, are they ?  

...............

Yes, I confused NCLR with a different group.  I apologize and admit my error.  Let's move on.  
.

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by: Barron X @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:46:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe you were thinking of certain "Aztlán" philosophies...

when you you ascribed secession to La Raza...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

The name Aztlán was first taken up by a group of Chicano independence activists led by Oscar Zeta Acosta during the Chicano movement of the 1960s and 1970s. They used the name "Aztlán" to refer to the lands of Northern Mexico that were annexed by the United States as a result of the Mexican-American War. Combined with the claim of some historical linguists and anthropologists that the original homeland of the Aztecan peoples was located in the southwestern United States, Aztlán in this sense became a symbol for mestizo activists who believe they have a legal and primordial right to the land. In order to exercise this right, some members of the Chicano movement propose that a new nation be created, The Republic of Aztlán.[7]

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by: Canines @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:57:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I have learned how much I didn't know

.
these last few days.  I think you and RedGreen and Dwyer have diagnosed where I was coming from pretty well.  

I mixed up a radical racist secessionist group that called itself "La Raza" with the civil rights group that also calls itself "La Raza."  

As someone on another thread offered, it was like me mixing up the "Knights of Columbus," a Catholic fraternal organization, with (I'm making this up) the Knights of White Supremacy, a racist group.  

I make mistakes here.  It's because I feel safe here and consider community members my friends.  
I grew up in a particular context, and I learned some bigotries and prejudices.  I have religious beliefs that offend some folks here.  

People who love and respect me on this site appreciate my honesty, and try to help me grow.  Sometimes I'm stubborn.  When I reveal some character flaw or prejudice, they chide me but don't condemn me.  I try to reciprocate.  

I'm an honest-to-goodness right wing religious extremist.  In some ways I have more in common with Muslim extremists than with American moderates.  
I think it is helpful for me to learn how the other side thinks, and I know that it helps me understand national politics to be able to listen in and even participate in the conversations here.  
Maybe it helps others to learn how I think, not that I'm such a typical representative of the political Right.
.

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by: Barron X @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:27:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why this isn't working

See Cartoons by Cartoon by Pat Bagley - Courtesy of Politicalcartoons.com - Email this Cartoon

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

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by: JeffcoBlue @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:35:43 PM UTC

The big Q

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:49:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Heh

I would bet that is one aspect of vetting that got a triple going over!

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by: Emma Anne @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 17:01:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A picture is worth a thousand words

nice one JeffcoBlue

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 14:51:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes it is

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:32:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Excellent.

That about sums it up for me and about sums up some of the wingnuts like Libertard here. A picture is truly worth a thousand words.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:20:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Interestingly you love to use a derogatory term "tard"

Did you call kids this name a lot growing up or are they "tards" just more acceptable targets for abortion?

Hint: try Tadpole or Libby. By showing respect and dignity in not characterizing "tards" you'll receive equally from others on this board.

...and hey roadkill, I'll still be here to kick your ass to the curb.

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:41:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hmm?

What did you say? I stopped reading right after I saw the word, "Interestingly...

See you round, you dumb fuck.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:49:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bet you couldn't kick Middle's Mom's ass to the curb, boy. n/t

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by: BlueCat @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:50:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hehehehehe.

That would be a bet you would win. :)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:53:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why is Roadkills Mother some big overweight hairly fastfood junkie?

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by: Libertad @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:58:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hehehehe.

Nice try, you dumb fuck. She eats bigmouthed,  dimwits like you for breakfast.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:13:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Where's the love ?

Hell, its a fine Friday from a short week, we're at the bottom of the recession, and the weathers' fine. And hey, how bout those Nuggets ?  Can't we all just get along ?

Now all 3 of you can tell me to fuck the hell off. :)

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:34:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Impossible!

I can't tell you to fuck the hell off. I like you too much. :)

And yes, the weather is divine. Good day for a walk at lunchtime, for sure.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:38:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

OK Fidel

Ready to play nice.  While that last game  was a big disappointment I'm still holding out hope for our Nuggies.  

With all the money the NBA is spending promoting the great Kobe/LeBron show down (don't you just love those puppet ads?) it already looks like LeBron will be a no show.  What a Hollywood (except in Hollywood) ending it would be if the Nugget's forced Kobe out, too.  Wonder how many millions the NBA has already spent  producing Kobe/LeBron promo paraphernalia? One can dream....

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by: BlueCat @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:51:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I am really hoping for that Blue Cat

No Kobe, No LeBron.  Especially the Kobe part (hey, LeBron has to live in Cleveland).

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 17:36:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nothing against LeBron

Plenty against Kobe, LA, the obnoxious Zen Master and the NBA coronation hype.  As Sir Robin always says...Go Nuggets!

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by: BlueCat @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 18:58:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nuggets in Seven!

Keep Hope Alive!!  

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble and reclaim the commons. Stop the militarization of America.

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by: Sir Robin @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 22:46:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, you've got her confused with Rush Limbaugh

"Why not do the right thing for the American people, even though it's not exactly what we want." - Speaker Boehner

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by: Half Glass Full @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 22:46:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"He doesn't know what he's talking about,"

For me, this is the answer to anything that comes out of Tancredo's mouth.  He's just a talk show joke guest.  

I always get a kick out of people like him from ethnic groups that once were considered the latest immigrant garbage, polluting "pure" American culture with their foreign ways and olive complexions, who slavishly imitate the very people who insulted and discriminated against their grandparents.  

I suspect self-loathing issues come into play with such types.  I bet nothing would make Tancredo happier than to wake up and find himself magically transformed into a big, blonde, blue eyed guy named Johnson.  

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by: BlueCat @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 15:48:09 PM UTC

To answer the question,

what is Tancredo thinking, my guess it is something like this:

"Aaaaagh!  One dark skinned person in a position of authority is appointing another dark skinned person to another position of authority!  This must stop!"

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

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by: Arvadonian @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 16:40:05 PM UTC

La Raza

I served on the board of La Raza in Colorado for several years and think very highly of their work. They help provide services and education for immigrants, and have launched several online schools.

They are also very supportive of education reform, and I am now working with the National Council of La Raza which has endorsed the ALL-STAR Act, a bill to promote innovative charter schools I am introducing in Washington DC.

They have strong support from both sides of the aisle in education reform as they are not afraid to challenge the status quo to improve educational opportunities for kids.

I think even more highly of Sotomayor because of her association with La Raza.

As a Jewish American, I have also been involved with ADL (on their Colorado board) and believe that the work of both these fine civil rights organizations is complimentary.

Congressman Jared Polis

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by: Jared Polis @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 18:36:03 PM UTC

Right on Rep. Polis

I just think it is ridiculously unfair that Tancredo is allowed to get away with saying something so completely defamatory, without any correction at all.  You can't just tarnish a group like La Raza like that with such blithe sweeping comments - its ludicrous.

And if you do read this, please tell Rep. Chaffetz that he has gone back to aiming his camera up his nose again - and that just isn't pretty at all.

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 19:50:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you, Congressman Polis!

NCLR is really nothing more than the Hispanic version of the NAACP or the ADL. There are all kinds of mainstream groups and people that support, work with or are members of NCLR.

Go to their website at http://www.nclr.org and you can easily see what an uncontroversial and benign group they are.

That is, if you're remotely interested in finding out the truth. Rather than slandering an entire ethnic group.

"Why not do the right thing for the American people, even though it's not exactly what we want." - Speaker Boehner

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by: Half Glass Full @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 22:48:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you for weighing in on this

and for your work with the ADL and NCLR.
I believe that if more people would research groups like those and work to understand the issues they face, we might be able to build a strong enough coalition as to eliminate these problems once and for all.

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: Cartesian Doubt @ Sun May 31, 2009 at 14:12:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

selective outrage

Never ceases to amaze me how has beens like Tancredo and Gingrich can fire up "the base".

I grew up in Denver, graduated from GW in '66, went into the U.S. Navy, and moved back in '72. Heard about La Raza, as well as other politically activist groups, mostly because the late '60's into the mid '70's were a period of societal turmoil. As I remember, there was a La Raza "chapter" on the Boulder CU campus in '72. A young lady I dated belonged. Hate to say it, really do, but her motivation for her ties with La Raza had to do with safety in numbers. At the time there were very few Hispanics, male or female, at CU. They were treated every bit as poorly by the white students as the African American students were, and they looked to eachother for support. But I never heard anything more than what I now remember as fear mongering concerning the behavior or "agenda" of La Raza.

I've heard a million stories down through the years from fellow whites about how Blacks or Hispanics "act" when they are among their peers. How "they're different when they're among their own kind". Whites do no service to ourselves when we deny the possibility that what people of color fear or are concerned about is possibly very real. As a race, we whites have eaten first at the trough for 2 centuries. Whites don't want that to change, espescially older whites.. Priveledged, fearfull, wealthy whites like Tancredo and Gingrich. I get that. To them, competition, instead of legacy, is death

What I don't get is this seeming willingness of any younger (by that I mean less than 40) whites to buy into the republican fear baiting. And I do understand the conservative red base is shrinking.

The idea that white fire fighters were "victims" because Judge Sotomayor followed precedence (and was backed up by the U.S. Supremes) and didn't rule in their favor smacks of the "eating first at the trough" attitude people like Gingrich and Tancredo hold. That hacks like cunny bob newman, sean hannity, and dan caplis (aka libertad) repeat to the dupe-able goobers.

Hopefully the quacks like 1y tommy tancredo  (diagnosed with severe depression 'till he was no longer of draft age, then it miraculously went away) and the other draft dodgers like limbaugh (pyles) and Gingrich (also 4f) will remain the heroes and leaders of the republican party. After all, nothing says "courage" like a draft dodger calling for the nuking and water boarding of our enemies.

And with all this, you're worried about ties to La Raza?

Grow up.  

   

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by: rocco @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 21:49:42 PM UTC