RNC Chair Angers Republicans...Again

Best. RNC Chair. Ever.

This guy is probably toast. Lots of top GOP officials wanted him out before, now he likely signed his own letter of resignation.

But it's not like there aren't pro-choice Republicans like Republican Majority for Choice. If Steele was forced out over this it would be a major slap in the face to the people in groups like RMC.

I always think it's funny when Republicans invoke the name of Barry Goldwater, because by their own standards, he wouldn't be able to be their party chair.

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by: redstateblues @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 17:49:22 PM UTC

If abortion is not an "individual choice,"

.
then who is making that choice ?  
How did they get that authority ?  

At its core, Christianity is about individual choice.  
A person can't really be born a Christian.  
The only way to be a Christian is to choose.  
Free Will.  We are all, whether professed disciple or not, free to choose who we are by our choices of what we do and think.  

Obviously, the Christian religion and mindset are also grounded in the consequences of those choices.  Fundamentalist Christians are acutely aware that everyone, including themselves (ourselves,) deserves to die and burn in Hell eternally for our choices.  

Then, of course, the attraction of Christianity is that we can be spared from that fate - from Justice - by the power of Jesus to forgive, or atone, or whatever.  

........

If I have no choice, and no freedom to err, I have no need of Jesus.  Religion is a crutch for the weak.  
The strong and the perfect are right to mock us simpletons and mouth-breathers who cling to our religion (guns optional.)
Automatons who cannot choose are blameless.  A robot has no culpability.  

So, why is Chairman Steele vilified for speaking this obvious truth ?  
Or did I once again misunderstand ?
.  

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by: Barron X @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 17:52:46 PM UTC

Short answer:

Yes

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by: BlueCat @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 17:58:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

When did Christians, mostly, become involved in abortions?

That's a serious question.  Despite my knowledge and education in religions and the bible, I find myself thinking that concerns about abortions is mostly a modern construct.

There certainly is no direct mention in the bible.  In fact, the Jewish faith has held for thousands of years that life begins with the first breath.  And as we all know, Christianity was a cult of Judaism for a long time, and that the Old Testament is really the Hebrew Bible. So, how, when did this construct appear?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most states never had laws prohibiting abortion until the early 20th century.  Granted, most women probably carried to term for any number of social reasons up until those days.  Who were these people and organized groups that found it "necessary" to have laws made?

I've said it before, the Catholic church and Barron are at least consistent, caring about life from beginning to end.  Wish our conservative Protestant brethren would do likewise.  

"Politics determines who has the power, not who has the truth." Paul Krugman, 9/2010

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by: parsingreality @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 18:38:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jeremiah 1:5

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb.  Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations."

This is the passage that fires up the anti-choice community.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

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by: Arvadonian @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 19:07:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So, actually, BEFORE there was a fetus......

I'm familiar with that line, and it's very touching.

But it says nothing at all about the beginning of life, or taking of "life" while within the womb.

So, if God knew that a still-to-be-formed fetus was going to be an abortionist, wouldn't He/She stop that?

And since that line has been there for over two thousand years, why is it just now discovered and used as a basis for political action?  

"Politics determines who has the power, not who has the truth." Paul Krugman, 9/2010

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by: parsingreality @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 20:14:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh, don't get me wrong....

I'm not buying it (I'm one of those Christians who take the Bible seriously, but not literally).  I'm just telling you where they are pulling it from.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

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by: Arvadonian @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:55:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm not hanging it on your neck, Arvadonian

Just pointing out the logical inconsistencies and late arrival of concern.  

I love the bible, too.  But I understand what it is and what it isn't.  As we Quakers are prone to say, a book about God, but not the Word of God.

If one were searching for the latter, I would nominate two.  The Koran was channeled through illiterate Mohammed in a short period of time in a language that is still very much the same.  The other would be A Course In Miracles.  That was channeled by a Jewish woman who never really believed what was happening or its content except generally.  Modern English, too.  

Yet, they are very, very different.  Islam is a strictly legalistic religion, CIM is some would say, New Age.  

"Politics determines who has the power, not who has the truth." Paul Krugman, 9/2010

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by: parsingreality @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 12:50:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Was that quote all children?

Or just that one child? Big difference.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

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by: DavidThi808 @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 22:49:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Barron,

The criticism that Steele is receiving from the more extreme wing of your party is based on the fact that they do not want abortion to be a matter of "individual choice".  They want abortion to be illegal in all circumstances or, in effect, the choice of abortion to be a collective decision left to the state.

Incidentally, ironically, Steele is of that opinion as well.  Both times he ran for statewide office in Maryland he ran as an anti-choice candidate.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

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by: Arvadonian @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 19:04:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

prompted by your post,

.
I checked the transcript of the interview.  
Steele's statement was interpreted to mean that a person has a right to an abortion, as you indicate.  

So I misunderstood what the argument was about.  That's what BlueCat meant, but the brevity of her post left me unawares.

Thanks for the feedback.
.

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by: Barron X @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 00:28:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry

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by: BlueCat @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 01:07:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jesus H. Christ, how dumb is this guy?!

Gays = bad
Abortion rights = bad

These are not complicated positions that the Republican party has embraced.  So why can't this guy remember them?

I'm not as sweet as I used to be.

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by: Jambalaya @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 20:56:29 PM UTC

You think he just slipped up and started speaking his mind ?

instead of the party drivel ?  I really wonder about this one.  

There seems to be a shred of decency in Steele that keeps popping up, Jekyll and Hyde like, then he forces it back down or it is forced back down by others.

Its so ironic that he's going to great efforts again to explain why he said something that is so palatable to a majority of American people.  That's a big no no - we just can't tolerate that in the "big tent".

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead". - Thomas Paine

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:05:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I wonder as well. But I don't think he has a history of strikingly independent thought.

I'm not as sweet as I used to be.

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by: Jambalaya @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:28:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

He seems to have a history

of saying whatever he thinks the person he's talking to wants to hear.  I think he just wants to be liked.

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by: BlueCat @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 01:09:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Isn't that

the mark of a good politician?  :)

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by: redstateblues @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 01:35:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

To a point

I guess you want to stop before you start looking like you have jello for a spine. Its a fine line.

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by: BlueCat @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 02:15:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or a masochist

Steele's done as chair. He's gone off the page and contradicted the party platform on one of its cornerstone issues, abortion.

His verbal gaffes and general screw-ups may be dismissed individually, but when they're taken as a whole, they're unforgivable to the party faithful.

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: Cartesian Doubt @ Sun Mar 15, 2009 at 14:53:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Josh Marshall's theory

is that Steele is the sort of guy who tells his interviewer whatever s/he wants to hear. Many politicians are obsequious, but Steele seems to have an extreme case of it.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

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by: sxp151 @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:22:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

was that the Woody Allen reference?

I read about it on Wonkette but couldn't be bothered to follow the links......

I'm not as sweet as I used to be.

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by: Jambalaya @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:27:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Zelig

the Human Chameleon.  

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by: RedGreen @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:28:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Never saw Zelig

and it wasn't mentioned on Marshall, but I suppose it makes sense that others would come up with the same idea.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

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by: sxp151 @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:29:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

aqui esta

http://spectator.org/blog/2009...

I'm not as sweet as I used to be.

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by: Jambalaya @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:34:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You've nailed it sxp

You eloquently express exactly the zeitgeist -- WAIT, DAMNIT, I'M DOING IT NOW TOO!

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by: RedGreen @ Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 21:29:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

oops

didn't see that you had already made this observation.

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by: BlueCat @ Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 01:10:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm not sure

if anything short of a written apology from the RNC to Natalie Maines and admission that she was right all along could save the R Party now.  After the 8 disastrous Bush years, I'm inclined to believe that American is "not ready to make nice".

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by: WesternSlopeThought @ Mon Mar 16, 2009 at 16:19:16 PM UTC