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November 19, 2016 06:22 AM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • 50 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Knowing your own darkness is the best method for dealing with the darknesses of other people.”

–Carl Jung

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50 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread”

    2. Many Americans are tired of entertainers, musicians, and celebrities feeling obligated to grab the spotlight to expound their personal political viewpoints to the rest of us.

      As it was, in this particular case, Brandon Davis was basing his remarks on the "sky is falling" hysteria the Left has been spewing since the day after the election.

      I'm sure the audience paid good money to see this Broadway production, not to listen to a political lecture afterwards.

       

      1. They were respectful in the delivery.  Given Clinton's overwhelming win in NY I doubt it caused much of a stir with the audience.  Pence stated this morning that he wasn't offended.  

        "I wasn't offended," Pence said on "Fox News Sunday," declining to ask for an apology as President-elect Donald Trump had demanded. 

        Pence acknowledged that many Americans were disappointed and anxious after Trump's surprise Nov. 8 election victory following a raucous campaign, but he sought to reassure Americans that Trump would be a president "for all Americans."

         

      2. After watching the news I expected it to be a rant. Wasn't. The remarks were civil and measured. Doubtful the cast would ever have another opportunity to speak to the incoming administration .

      3. the "sky is falling" hysteria the Left has been spewing since the day after the election. 

        What a crock. The hysteria you mention is the honest reaction to the hatred and violence perpetrated by those who hail the victory of their champion, der Drumphenfurher.

        Muslims, Hispanics, Gays, Native Americans, and  anyone else hated by those who claim to be "real" Americans are now targets of the spiteful, bitter bastards who have taken Trumps' blanket of legitimacy and are running with it. It is now OK to hate anyone and hurt them if you feel like it.

        After months of spewing hateful invective at anyone he chose, now the cowardly son-of-a bitch is trying to backtrack his blame for the ugliness you and he have created…

        Swim in that pool of hatred, Civics101….you filled it. 

      5. Why wouldn't these people, who were playing our founding fathers, speak out against the fools who will soon occupy the White House? The people who came to see the show paid good money to see political opera, and that's what they got, and then some. 

      1. Buttercup, are your feelings still hurt over the Hamilton incident?  Remember the day when you could be jailed for being in an inter-racial marriages?  Remember who fought to the bitter end to keep them that way? People who look a lot like those who will be in power come mid-January.

  2. Some helpful advice:

    I think the Dems are on the right track for successfully competing in the next election cycle.  Keep doing what you are doing.

    Keith Ellison is your guy.  Nothing says middle-American voter like a supporter of Louis Farrakhan.  Think big banks as a supporter is a problem, try being funded by the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Make sure you keep the status quo in House leadership.  Nothing says young middle American like a San Francisco Octogenarian.

    Keep up the celebrity attacks.  They keep working for you.

    And most of all, keep protesting the election.  Trump is not your President.  He is middle-America's President.

     

    1. Here I can't mount much of an argument. Knocking the Vice-President Elect from a Manhattan stage doesn't help to make you Dems competitive. But, Andrew, I have already successfully rebutted your arguments about Ellison and made my comments about how the Dems need to “progress.”. 

      1. Our POTUS and VPOTUS-elect are going to have to get thicker skin. The irony is thick given Trump, a man who questioned the citizenship of our current CIC, is demanding an apology.  You don't get to embrace the Second Amendment and dismiss the First.

        It wasn't a production of Hamilton, but were you equally appalled when Joe Wilson called our President a liar from the House floor during a State of the Union address? 

        1. Wrong nest, CHB.  That was meant for our tutor-in-chief (the one who was railing over fake news sites yesterday while simultaneously promoting said bullshit on Ford on another thread).

            1. I didn't mean to crap in your 'nest' 😳 –  knew you'd be appalled. I'm less confident our Librarian shares that emotion.  Thank the flying spaghetti Goddess the actors were respectful in their delivery and didn't do something really awful –  like ask him to bake a cake. 

        2. Yes, I was appalled when Rep. Joe Wilson shouted "You lie!" at President Barack Obama, but it wasn't during a State of the Union address.  (Fake news here?)

          It was during a presidential speech, regarding the Affordable Care Act, on September 9, 2009.  State of the Union addresses are generally delivered in January.

           

          1. I stand corrected.  It was a Joint Session of Congress.  That makes it all-the-better.  No, honey, I don't frequent fake news sites. I was going from memory – which partially failed me (your first clue might have been that I didn’t reference a fake news site to my comment).

            Given the nest you've chosen to place your response, are you the Librarians alter-ego? It's hard to keep track of the personalities on here. 

            1. No, I'm a retired educator and I know the importance of doing a little research before posting.

              I’m not sure why you think a Joint Session of Congress made “all-the-better” because a State of the Union address is also a Joint Session of Congress.

              I put my comment (Fake news here?) above in italics and parenthesis because it was meant to be “tongue in cheek.” Sorry, if you didn’t catch it.

              But I tip my hat to you for recognizing your error.  A little less sarcasm might earn you more respect though. 

              1. I'm not buying what you're selling here on this thread, but knock yourself out, AC. I'm not in search of your respect. There are plenty of bloggers here who will vouch for my 'research before I post' creds.  

                Of course you’d miss my sarcasm in my ‘all-the-better’ remark

              2. You have not the slightest notion of the respect Michael has already earned and enjoys at this site. 

                Michael Bowman was posting intelligent diaries and thoughtful comments here for years….long before you showed up as a Trump troll.

                 

  3. History has a long arc, shillboy.  Ask the Japanese where Victory disease  led them after Pearl Harbor.  You have total power and and are givivg us a public face of old segs like J. Beauregard Sessions and sinister alt rights like bannon.  Yamamoto ran wild for six months before we destroyed him at Midway..  I give you two years before the Pussy Grabber's act runs old.  You have the most absolute power of any party since 1928.   You might want to read a book — you know, those funny paper things — about what happened in 1932.

    Jefferson BEAUREGUARDE Sessions?

    It is 2016 and you guys worship Pierre Gustave Toutant Beaureguarde?

    Jefferson Davis hated Beaureguarde!

    The perfect symbol for a party ignorant of history and blind to optics.

    Have a happy Beaureguarde.

     

    1. Show some respect, V.  That's Jefferson Beauregard Sessions THE THIRD. 

      Deep Southern roots. Named after the Confederate president, and the man who touched off the Civil War. You know, those guys who wanted slavery in America.

      1. Yes, Yamamoto did run wild until Midway. Few people know that, just three days after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese sank two British battleships off Singapore. Then they headed into the Indian Ocean and sunk several ships at Trincomalee, the then British naval base on Ceylon (now Sri Lanka). Then reversed course and, despite some losses, took out the US, Dutch, British, and Australian naval forces stationed near Java. The superiority lesson of air power over surface combatants was a quick and sad learn.  

        1. Hms Prince of Wales and Repulse to be precise.. But the planes that sunk them were based on Formosa.  Nagumo's run into the Indian Ocean came after the battle of the Java Sea

          1. Most people understand the concept of battleships. The Repulse was actually a battle cruiser, which had less armor. The Prince of Wales had survived tangling with the Bismarck during the year prior.

      1. #blacklash is a real thing. I’m as interested in knowing how many Americans are represented by each line. Why don’t you add that up and get back to us, K? I’m sure Kansas (a red line) could use another taxpayer. Have you considered moving to the Koch Promise Land?

        1. The number of Americans represented by states controlled entirely by Republicans: 148.57 million (47%) The number of Americans represented by state legislatures either controlled by Democrats or split government: 167.56 million. (53%)

          Electoral Votes, Republican dominated states: 255  

           

           

          1. Michael, our elections are state based… even the presidential one.  Of course, when large states like California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, and New Jersey are reliably Democratic strongholds, there are going to be more people who voted for Democratic candidates.  So what?  It does not matter one iota.  It's also why we have the Electoral College for presidential elections.

            1. Oh for heavans sake, do you really think you need to keep lecturing me on election process? The election was effectively decided by roughly 107,000 people in three states.  Do you think the Democratic party machine doesn't understand this?  Or understand what we need to do for a course correction in 2018/2020? This election was no mandate.  The EC worked for the dynamics of this election, one built on hate and subterfuge.  That doesn't mean it will work for the next.  

              The Republicans hold the keys to the kingdom.  If they play them right the mid-terms could be tough.  You only have to go back to the overreach of Gingrich in 1994 to understand what one possible outcome of this election could be.  Who the hell knows what fruit the next 2-4 years hold?  

               

              1. What we do know is this, Michael:  the fates have conspired to put a madman in the White House.   The fact that most americans didn't choose that fate won't save us now.

  5. Paul Ryan and the Republican Horsemen of the Apocalypse are getting ready to gut Medicare and Social Security. They seem to want to push it through early in Trumps term (before Americans know what hit them).

    They'll call it a "fix", but it cuts benefits when we should be increasing them. It "fixes" the problem of a few truly popular and effective government programs that are also run quite efficiently.

    And we all know R's want nothing to do with that kind of thing. 

    Paul Ryan is drafting his legislation to privatize Medicare and cut benefits. The Republican Congress has promised they will shovel this legislation through using budget reconciliation as their goal.

    To make it palatable for today's seniors, Ryan has also promised that the current Medicare system will remain in place for people age 55 and above. That's a terrible idea, as Jonathan Cohn explains at Huffington Post.

    They'll also want or need some bipartisan cover from Democratic Senators, God help us. Cutting Social Security (to save it) was a Mark Udall pipe dream. Fortunately for us, the Grand Bargain died along with Udall's career in government.

    But "Blue Dog" Michael Bennet will be a prime target for Republicans looking for cover in killing these programs. He's internalized all the lies about the programs' solvency and Republican rhetoric about the debt and safety net programs , so he's an easy mark.

    As our economy continues to recover, Michael believes we need to work together and start making the tough decisions necessary to put our nation's fiscal house in order. Putting the country on a sustainable, long-term fiscal path and bringing our debt under control is incredibly important to our economy and our standing in the world.

    Krugman notes how the fiscal crisis has passed, but Bennet hasn't had time to review his position pages on his senate site.

    Michael has been leading the fight for a comprehensive, bipartisan solution to our nation's unsustainable debt since joining the U.S. Senate in 2009. He's pushed for a balanced approach that materially reduces our deficit and demonstrates we're all willing to make the sacrifices necessary to reduce spending and reform our outdated tax code. 

    Yeah, I suppose we all are willing to make a sacrifice, but somehow losses already absorbed by the Middle Class, additional sacrifices we've taken so the wealthy can keep their tax cuts, stagnant wages kept there by Republican Obstructionism won't fit into that deal. A deal that now has to be made with a reactionary, know-nothing and his fiscal cliff jumpers in congress. 

    Krug: 

    So what would it take to avoid any rise in the debt ratio? Surprisingly little. The budget office estimates that stabilizing the ratio of debt to G.D.P. at its current level would require spending cuts and/or tax hikes of 1.2 percent of G.D.P. if we started now, or 1.5 percent of G.D.P. if we waited until 2020. Politically, that would be hard given total Republican opposition to anything a Democratic president might propose, but in economic terms it would be no big deal, and wouldn’t require any fundamental change in our major social programs.

    In short, the debt apocalypse has been called off.

    Now Republicans have all the juice and will claim a mandate to do something they've wanted to do for decades. They could blame the need for cuts on Obama. But they're going to want someone like Michael Bennet on their side so that when we send the elderly back to depression era living conditions they can say it was a bipartisan effort.

    1. Krugman's notion of "surprising little" defined as "spending cuts and/or tax hikes of 1.2 percent of G.D.P. if we started now," seems a bit disingenuous. My hazy recollection is that GDP is $18 Trillion,  federal government activity is about 22% of the overall economy, at $4 Trillion. My manipulation of these numbers means Federal spending would need to take a 5.5% cut to maintain a breakeven relationship. That's $222 Billion. And we all know the Republican majority wants to cut tax revenue and increase defense spending – so to maintain the relationship, the changes would be added to the $222 Billion. And they want to diminish the $19.5 Trillion in debt, which would mean further addition.

      It used to be said that a Billion here, a Billion there, and soon you are talking real money. Now, a dollar figure nearly equivalent to all interest payments ($240 Billion in 2016) is being labelled "surprisingly little." 

      Am I missing something?  Are my nearly forgotten math skills misplacing a decimal point or something?

      1. Republicans, and those "Fix the Debt" "centrists" like Udall and Bennet, are the ones who are hysterical about budget deficits. But when R's are in office? Fuhgeddaboutit:

        Fox News’ “business block” today began with a full-out cheering section for Donald Trump to cut corporate and personal taxes and, while he’s at it, one pundit demanded cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

        Host Dagen McDowell began the first "Cost of Freedom" show by “asking” if Trump should “slash” both personal and corporate taxes “at the same time.”

        Guest Gary B. Smith said, “It should be number one priority.” Smith argued that cutting personal taxes is about “fairness,” as in, “Let the individual keep their money and better spend it, rather than on the Solyndras and on the Amtraks and all the other silly government projects out there.” Apparently, if you want to take a train as public transportation, you should just wait for a billionaire to build a private one and hope that it stops near you and has an affordable fare.

        Not that anyone on the panel complained. McDowell enthused, “If you cut individual taxes, in addition to corporate taxes, that flows to small corporations, small companies who are taxed at those very individual rates.”

      2. Your math skills are right on point, John. It always worries me when there are skeptics who downplay the national debit, as though it was inconsequential.  We are passing on a serious financial reckoning to our children and grandchildren.

        To those who think the national debt is irrelevant, I would ask what figure does it have to reach for you to consider it relevant?

        1. It is a complex equation, civvy, with the goal being that the debt is appoximately steady as a share of gdp over the life of the economic cycle.  To debt fetishists, I'd remind everyone of milton friedman's maxim that the burden of government is what it spends, not wtether that sum is derived from debt or taxation.

            1. Because our debt is denominated in our own currency plus the fact that we are the de facto reserve currency, we will never become Greece. We might monetize the debt, however.  That seems to be trump's goal and up to a point it might work.

    2. The whole Medicare and Social Security issue is far more complex than what Zappy tries to present. I actually read several of those links rather than taking Zappy's hysteria at face value. Either taxes go up to fund these programs long term, or benefits get cut. And of course, the mandatory dig at Michael Bennet isn't far behind.

      I'm reminded of a Mr. T line from the TV show, The A Team, back in the 1980s that applies to Zappy.  SHUT UP, FOOL !!

      1. Maybe, but a modest increasein the Social Security ceiling and maybe moving to chained CPI would do it.  No cuts in bebefits are needed, none, though they may not grow as fast.in the future.

        1. Medicare, SS, our bridges and roads and sewers and water systems are all eminently fixable. Oh, and our solar and wind could also be much greater.. And to just throw shit in, we could also have amazing internet speed across the country.

          But the prevailing attitude in DC is that "the greatest country the earth has known" can get by with some mediocre investments here and there for the last, and I guess the next, 50 years.

          Most Democrats, your friend Bennet included, are too afraid of the word to say we should raise taxes and take back both the "Peace Dividend" and the Bush War Tax giveaway swindled by a VP name of Cheney. Even he rather preferred that Halliburton and Brown and Root and his CEO pals had all that money rather than be reinvested smartly in the good old U.S.of A. 

          Bennet has had those Republican Talking Points on his senate web site since Day 1. Banger may not care. Voyageur does and so do I.

          Funny how that works.

          1. "Funny how that works."   Funny how you enjoy thread drift so much. What's the need to add in infrastructure to your started discussion about Medicare and Social Security? Then you try and fail to give us a history lesson about long departed V-P Dick Cheney.

      2. Any discussion re "privatization" is very threatening. Remember what happened to 401Ks in '08. Recessions and even depressions will recur. It doesn't seem wise to institutionalize a guaranteed impoverishment of seniors 

  7. George Takei on Trump’s proposed Muslim ban, and how Japanese internment was used by a Trump surrogate as legal precedent for pre-emptively registering Muslims:

     

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