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September 17, 2016 07:27 AM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • 71 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“In the end, people are persuaded not by what we say, but by what they understand.”

–John C. Maxwell

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71 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Where oh where are Hillary's young voters?

     

    New Q poll — Is Hillary Clinton honest?

    U.S. LIKELY VOTERS
    Yes — 32%
    No — 65%

    VOTERS 18-34
    Yes — 21%
    No — 77% (!!!!!)

     

    Ouch.

        1. PissAnt and I have a relationship that predates your arrival here and it does not require your input. So, mind your own business. PissAnt can take care of himself.

          Furthermore, his little data point is a meaningless fact. It has no statistical significance and is certainly not newsworthy. Hence, my comment….

          1. Tiny:

            We have a relationship?

            News to me.

            CHB and David, I appreciate your attempt to introduce some sense of civility to the conversation, but there are some people who traffic these pages who are not able to be civil.

            1. Of course we have a relationship, Mr. Carnegie (feel better now?) You say stupid shit and I call you on it.

              And…I am perfectly capable of civility when it is warranted. You, however, will never warrant such treatment. You may feign indignation as much as you like, but you cannot erase your history here. 

              There are many of us here who well recall the many truly despicable and nasty comments and cartoons you have posted on this site. The vicious attacks on the Obama family and so many others will not be forgotten here.. Please do not pretend that you are somehow afflicted as an innocent, deserving of respect and consideration..

              You deserve nothing but contempt and censure.

               

          2. Duke: I'll make the decision as to what might require my input and I'll choose to make my own decisions as to what I decide will be my business, not you.

            1. Suit yourself…I had simply hoped for a common courtesy. Perhaps my old brain is just too tired to remember when I butted in to a dialogue between you and someone else. Perhaps you can remind me.

              I was addressing AC directly, but, pile on if you wish, However, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to comply with your crybaby point of view regarding my treatment of other posters here.

              If, at some point, I should be admonished by Alva to treat conservative meatheads with kid gloves, I may reconsider my attitude.  Until then, I will continue to respond as I wish to those who choose to engage me on this site. 

              If a flame war is what you seek….I will be happy to oblige.

               

               

               

        2. Hillary's deficit with young voters is hardly news, though most are coming around given the alternative.

          I've commented on it myself – all of the young and old Bernite "new blood" should have been welcomed in the Dem tent and ideas adopted, not ridiculed and marginalized. To some extent, Bern's ideas were integrated into the party platform, although whether they will translate into policy or be any more than good intentions remains to be seen.

          As for Andrew Carnegie, he is an expert at promoting wedge issues that divide Democrats and lower morale, always bringing much more obscuring smoke than light.

          Nothing makes him happier than seeing his spiteful seeds grow into  weeds  that strangle discourse. Why oblige him?

           

           

           

          1. My motivation here, mama, is only to make sure our fairly sensible conservatives (like CHB) here are not mislead into defending our mendacious little miscreant.

            I will give him short shrift henceforth.

             

            1. I get that, Duke. My own comment was more to CHB than you. CHB will get wise to AC's manipulations as he sees more of AC's work here.

              There's another new troll, "Bright Bart," who likes to pose as a Bernie supporter who now supports Trump, cuz "Corrupt Hillary". I suppose the idea is that we Bernistas are all naive idiots who will happily exchange one "outsider" for another. We'll probably see more of "Bart's" nonsense, as well.

    2. Clinton has much better scores than Trump on other key qualities:

      Voters say 68 – 31 percent that she has the right kind of experience to be president and 65 – 34 percent that Trump does not have the experience;

      Voters say 88 – 11 percent that Clinton is intelligent and 69 – 29 percent that Trump is intelligent;

      Clinton cares about average Americans, voters say 53 – 46 percent, while Trump does not, voters say 55 – 44 percent;

      Clinton is level-headed, voters say 63 – 55 percent, but Trump is not, voters say 69 – 27 percent;

  2. I like the Maxwell quote. When we started this "Information Age" we thought of information as the same thing as facts and knowledge. We were excited that, at any moment, we could learn about anything that has ever been learned with a simple search of the internet and that would inspire us to learn more.

    Unfortunately we underestimated the power and sheer magnitude of the information we would find and create. The amazing amount of figures and statistics and opinions and voices has made it all but impossible for many people to find facts and knowledge through the internet. There is even more people who have no motivation to find the actual facts and knowledge. They are happy to stick with the 100s of resources that give them information they agree with because if 100 websites say something is true, it's true. Right?

    In many ways, the internet is more than we could have dreamed. It brings knowledge and people together in such amazing ways. Unfortunately, it has also made tribalism and divisiveness just as powerful as knowledge.

  3. This fucking guy. Is he running for President of the USA or being a WWE villian? I can't tell the difference.

    Let's break down this 'deplorables' nonsense.

    – Clinton said half of Trumps supporters are deplorables. They are "…racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it."

    – Deplorable means "deserving strong condemnation."

    – People who are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic deserve strong condemnation.

    So now Trump and his supporters are wearing the label "deplorable" with pride. This is basically Trump saying that if you are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, etc. then he welcomes you. He does not find these ideas as deplorable. He won't condemn them. He accepts them.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THIS OK?!

    1. Fuckstick Carnegie:

      How do you so often put your foot in your mouth when you're head is lodge up your own ass? I didn't say anything about the Republican party.

        1. Fuckstick Carnegie:

          Well if that's true than at least 50% of the Republican Party are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, or some combination thereof.

          Congratulations.

          1. Chickened, you impress me with your knowledge of AC's provenance.   Is he  one of the Boston Fucksticks, known for running illegal numbers games and child prostitution, , or is he part of the Oyster Bay branch, the one with the long history of pedophilia?

              1. If you are confused, Chickenheed, you may have taken my query a bit too literally.  You were doing a fine job of maligning his motives and character.  I was merely hoping to add defamation of his family tree and his long history of alcoholism and drug abuse to the dialogue.  Did I mention he is a direct descendant of Benedict Arnold?smiley

        2. Ooh, ACHole, you are such a good Nazi!  Loyal to a fault

          The one thing that has seemed most unusual about Trump's candidacy is that he has been in the business of being outrageous, not of pretending that it is his opponents who are beyond the pale. Trump grabbed the Republican nomination by blustering his way past every outrageous thing that he said, while insulting and laughing at anyone who tried to call him out for being a bully.

          This left very little time to pretend that his opponents were doing outrageous things. Sure, Trump could call people liars and accuse them of being crooked, even as he was setting records for lying and has been dogged by his extensive history of corruption.  

          http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchanan-trump-fakes-outrage-good-republican-498512

          Take pride in being a mindless lemming, if that is what pleases you.

    2. Well, AC, Chickenshit did not write about Republicans, he wrote about Drumpf™ supporters.

      The data show http://www.vox.com/2016/9/12/12882796/trump-supporters-racist-deplorables

      And, http://www.salon.com/2016/07/06/the_disturbing_data_on_republicans_and_racism_trump_backers_are_the_most_bigoted_within_the_gop/

      More, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/10-times-donald-trump-supporters-were-blatantly-racist_us_5798d3b0e4b02d5d5ed3b6b0

    4. If half of them are willing to vote for the racists' favorite who uses race baiting to appeal to those low education voters he loves than yes…. they are racist or even worse, perfectly happy to encourage and use racism.

      If you vote for Trump you are one or the other or simply a hopelessly ignorant, even if well meaning, easily manipulated sap. The kind that are bamboozled by the strongmen of the world into believing that they are great leaders who will make their little world great again just like it used to be in some hazily remembered golden age and who cheer on and lift up the strongmen only to be crushed by them along with everyone but an elite that very much does not include gullible saps.

      Those are the only choices. There is no such thing as a Trump supporter who isn't one of those three things. Racist,  willing to see racism used as a manipulating tool, or a sap.

      Last I checked it was more than half of Republicans.

      The pre-southern strategy GOP is dead.

      Pre-Tea party conservatism (not that  conservatism ever was anything to write home about but it was somewhat civilized) is dead.

      All that's left is Trumpism and enablers of Trumpism.

      And that's who you are now, AC.  One or the other.

  5. Charles Krauthammer explains why Trump seems to be getting away with murder (just wait until Trump decides to shoot someone in Times Square just to prove he can get away with it):

    Can you really repackage the boasting, bullying, bombastic, insulting, insensitive Trump into a mellow and caring version? With two months to go? In a digital age in which every past outrage is preserved on imperishable video?

    Turns out, yes. How? Deflect and deny — and pretend it never happened. Where are they now — the birtherism, the deportation force, the scorn for teleprompters, the mocking of candidates who take outside money? Down the memory hole.

    Orwell was wrong. You don’t need repression. You need only the sensory overload of an age of numbingly ephemeral social media. In this surreal election season, there is no past.

    http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/16/hillary-sharpens-trump-softens-hes-rising-shes-falling/

    Surreal is right.  Cynical hacks like AChole and deluded fools like Modster both hype a dangerous megalomaniac to lead our country.  Trump's only desire is for constant ego gratification and flattery, regardless of the source .  He is so fixated on his own image that he sees nothing, cares nothing for anything outside his immediate reach, much like a narcissistic 2 year old.

    Maybe that is why Donald Trump is such an admirer of temperamental dictators:

     in January, Trump expressed respect for North Korea’s Kim Jong-un. “[Y]ou have to give him credit,” he said, while granting that the dictator was a “maniac.” “How many young guys—he was like 26 or 25 when his father died—take over these tough generals, and all of a sudden—you know, it’s pretty amazing when you think of it. How does he do that? Even though it is a culture and it’s a cultural thing, he goes in, he takes over, and he’s the boss. It’s incredible. He wiped out the uncle. He wiped out this one, that one. I mean, this guy doesn’t play games.”

     

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/09/why_donald_trump_loves_vladimir_putin.html

     

     

  6. I think the cavalry is starting to arrive, with much more to come:

    Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates Says Trump Is ‘Beyond Repair’

    “The world we confront is too perilous and too complex to have as president a man who believes he, and he alone, has all the answers and has no need to listen to anyone. In domestic affairs, there are many checks on what a president can do; in national security there are few constraints,” he said. “A thin-skinned, temperamental, shoot-from-the-hip and lip, uninformed commander-in-chief is too great a risk for America.”

    Case in point: just last week, Trump threatened to start a war with Iran over hand gestures.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/robert-gates-donald-trump-national-security_us_57dd63b4e4b08cb1409622ee?section=&

    1. "Never met but never liked dopey Robert Gates. Look at the mess the U.S. is in. Always speaks badly of his many bosses, including Obama."

      And, “Heading to Colorado for a big rally. Massive crowd, great people! Will be there soon – the polls are looking good.”

  7. A non-political item:  Woody Page, long time sports writer for the Denver Post, will be moving on. Page is 70, and the article did not say if he would retire or go to another venue.

    Page’s last article will be printed Sunday.

    1. In other breaking news, Lincoln assassinated.

      Um, Paige's leaving the Post was announced in July 🙂

      Renowned sports columnist Woody Paige joining The Gazette

      By: Woody Paige 

       July 30, 2016 Updated: July 31, 2016 at 5:55 pm

  8. Looks like the press is finally starting to expose Trump for what he really is:

    Like Father Like Son: Where Donald Trump Jr. Got His Affinity For Holocaust Jokes

    Donald Trump’s father, Fred Trump, was arrested at a klan rally. The apples haven’t fallen far.

    The holocaust “joke” from Trump isn’t surprising. His campaign has been shot through with racism and assorted bigotry. As a result, he has won the backing of Louisiana Senate candidate David Duke, a leading white supremacist, anti-semite and former senior member of the Ku Klux Klan, along with many of Duke’s deplorable supporters.

     

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/like-father-like-son-where-donald-trump-jr-got-his-affinity-for-holocaust-jokes_us_57dd3885e4b0071a6e07ad55?

    If Trump apologists don't want to remember or acknowledge who he is and what he represents, we'll just have to keep reminding them.

     

      1. Hoo boy, Trump really has opened Pandora's Box:

        “In a sense, we’ve managed to push white nationalism into a very mainstream position,” he said. “Trump’s online support has been crucial to his success, I believe, and the fact is that his biggest and most devoted online supporters are white nationalists. Now, we’ve pushed the Overton window. People have adopted our rhetoric, sometimes without even realizing it. We’re setting up for a massive cultural shift.”

    2. I've noticed that the press has quite suddenly become much less he said/she said over all at this late date. They seem to be freaking out over the real possibility of Trump and realizing that maybe they should have mentioned a few things and not let everything Trump says pass as just another candidate's opinion a long time ago. Maybe covered something besides the rallies, the insult exchanges, been a little less even handed between Clinton missteps and much more clearly unethical and in all likelihood illegal Trump escapades. HRC's cough instead of Trump using a charitable foundation as his own personal expense account.  

      Maybe raised the question of how all this points to the likelihood that his multi-billionaire shtick is just a plate spinning pose. He needs to funnel this money to himself and into contributions he can pretend come from him personally because he doesn't really have all that much money.

      Where were investigations into his charity for  the buying himself stuff scam, charity to pay legal fees scam, tangible, direct payment for looking the other way in investigations scam, as just a few tip of the iceberg examples, back when they could have done some momentum slowing good? 

      From what I'm seeing in all kinds of not  just lefty, not just MSNBC or HuffPost, but very centrist main stream press like USA Today (was at a hotel this weekend attending a wedding) in just the past week or so, there is a desperate belated attempt being made to stop the run away train they were all having so much fun riding now that it's becoming real scary instead of scare yourself for fun scary. 

      I hope it isn't too little too late.

      We must now rely on all those minorities with whom Trump is doing worse than Romney did being sufficiently motivated to come out and vote for HRC even though they aren't very inspired by her. To be fair, who is? 

      But we, all the Dem demos, have got to come out and vote as if we all love her as much as V does. More! Yikes!

  9. As the polls now show the race for president within the margin of error, I'd like to take you back to this post, and all the oh so certain replies discounting it.

    I take no joy from Trump being a credible winner of the election. But for all of you that are so certain you're right, next time consider evaluating uncomfortable opinions.

    1. Unlike you, David, I believe in an America that is not based on hate.  I may be wrong, but I believe most Americans (enough of a majority) don't wake up every morning hating everyone who isn't white.  And I will cling to that belief, because I don't want to live in a fascist regime, just to prove whites are better.  And I am certainly very, very white.

          1. David makes some good points, which I strongly hope turn out to be unfounded. As for you, itlduso, why do you find it necessary to engage in name calling? 

          1. In my original post I proposed something that I think would have had Hillary still well ahead of Donald at this point. That was defeatism, that was proposing to go all in to win.

            Those that said nothing to worry about, we've got it in the bag, those were the attitudes that can lead to defeat.

            1. While initially many considered a Trump victory in the primaries unthinkable (I sure did), it's been a long time since anyone here has claimed HRC has it in the bag and there's nothing to be concerned about.

              I for one feel that Trump and only Trump makes an HRC victory possible. Any typical GOP candidate could have beat her easily with her high negatives and the natural default after two terms to the other party. I would have preferred a deeper bench in the first place and believe lovable, regular guy Joe Biden would be having Trump for lunch right now.

              I still believe Trump makes it possible which is a long way from nothing to worry about. I still think, all things considered including forecasters like Nate Silver who still give her the edge for a win, that she probably will.  That's also not exactly proclaiming  assured victory.

              We'll see who's measuring for drapes in November. 

          1. Well, David, while the Bible says we should love our enemies, I am quite certain that AC does not.  I'll admit I am not able to attain that lofty goal myself.  

            Thus, since AC's only goal is to obfuscate and distract, not shed light or have meaningful, sincere discussions over honest disagreements of policy or principles, we simply will respond to his posts in the manner in which we feel most appropriate.

            I do miss your old, informed diaries and posts.  As you know, while dissent can be met with unnecessary roughness, consider the alternative on right-wing sites that do not allow dissent at all to their blatantly false and malicious propaganda.

  10. Alright Mr. I-Told-You-So, you were wrong too.

    His instincts are to be a narcissistic bully and to react without thinking. And he's very thin skinned. If he stays in that mode he'll go down to major defeat.

    Trump is still a narcissistic bully who reacts without thinking. He didn't change. None of us expected this many people could possibly stoop to Trump's level of stupid but it has happened. Is it possible that Trump could win? Yes. Did I think it was possible in June? Hell no. I don't even want to believe it now.

  11. In an interview with the Atlantic, famed anthropologist Jane Goodall stated that watching GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump in the Republican debates reminded her of how chimps act in order to express dominance. …..

    Trump reminds her of one chimp in particular — whom she called Mike — who created unnecessary noise in order to scare off his rivals. …..

    The anthropologist stated that she plans to watch the debates between Trump and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and that she expected she will see a lot of Mike in Trump’s performance.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/anthropologist-jane-goodall-trumps-debate-style-reminds-me-of-dominance-rituals-of-chimps/

    Hillary may have more experience dealing with this kind of behavior than did the sixteen lesser chimps in the GOP debates.

  13. Kelly Anne Conway should be ashamed of herself. I can rarely recall more complete crap coming from the mouth of any political operative. Yes..she is fast on her feet and can pivot and spin with the best of them…but I have rarely seen someone so completely dishonest. 

    She has willingly entered and is now completely integrated into the most arrogant and dangerous candidacy since David Duke ran for president in 1992. This level of information manipulation and subterfuge is scary…not funny.

      1. The reality is…you are an idiot and a troll.

        I didn't say she wasn't doing her job. Her job is to lie, spin, and try to deflect the truth of the inexorable march toward a fascist regime that is the intention of her boss. It seems to me I said this…

        Yes..she is fast on her feet and can pivot and spin with the best of them  

        and this little gem..

        She is successful and you are not.

        proves only one thing…you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. I am very successful and could give a shit less about her status in life or, if you are instead talking about how effective she is at changing the dialogue in this country, you are fooling yourself. . I only care about her job of lying through her teeth and thereby enabling the end of freedom in America.

         

         

         

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