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CD-2 Candidate Tax Returns: More Bad News for Polis

by: Colorado Pols

Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 16:20:15 PM MDT


We missed this story on Friday from the Boulder Daily Camera:

Jared Polis publicized seven years' worth of tax returns Thursday, a day after his major Democratic rivals in the 2nd Congressional District race made similar disclosures.

Joan Fitz-Gerald and Will Shafroth, who released their tax returns Wednesday, said they did so in large part to prompt their wealthy opponent to open the books on his income and tax information.

Polis' returns show five years -- from 2001 to 2005 -- during which the Internet entrepreneur paid no taxes. He showed a net loss of income for four of those five years.

The returns also show a couple of years when he posted a total of more than $120 million in adjusted gross income and more than $18.4 million in taxes paid.

Polis, 32, said the discrepancy in tax and income data over the seven years is primarily based on whether he was developing companies -- which would often operate at a loss in their initial years -- or selling a company.

"In my business career, I only make significant money when I sell a company," Polis said Thursday.

Two years ago, Liberty Media Inc. bought Provide Commerce Inc., which operated Polis-founded ProFlowers.com. The sale was valued at $477 million, $116 million of which went to Polis.

Polis said in many of the years he didn't owe taxes, he was reporting income losses -- in 2005 his losses reached $2.6 million -- as he tried to bring companies he helped found into the black.

"I founded several high-growth companies, and we would manage those for growth rather than for profit," he said. "When I make money, I pay taxes. When I don't make money, I don't."

Is Polis legally correct here? Maybe, but it sure looks terrible. The ads write themselves: "Jared Polis, millionaire, doesn't pay taxes."

Given the harm that will come from this disclosure, it probably would have made more sense for the Polis campaign to refuse to open up his books. He still would have taken a hit, but it wouldn't have been as bad. "Polis Refuses to Disclose Tax Records" is better than "Polis Doesn't Pay Taxes."
Colorado Pols :: CD-2 Candidate Tax Returns: More Bad News for Polis
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CD-2 Candidate Tax Returns: More Bad News for Polis | 64 comments
Of course
Jared is legally correct.
In fact, if he is smart, and I am sure that he is, he would roll the losses into profit-making entities to reduce their taxes.
We're not saying he's wrong here
It just looks terrible. And in politics, appearance is all that really matters.
[ Parent ]
Bush tax cuts for the wealthy actually work...
No taxes in five years is an embarrassment to any candidate. There are enough charitable and corporate loopholes for Jared and other millionaires to soak up the American dream and owe nothing to Uncle Sam. Keep "living the life" Jared, and the little people will keep paying the taxes.
[ Parent ]
How totally without economic understanding are you rube Democrats ?

To invest is to create jobs.  What your man Jared did was to create something that didn't exist before.  

But as you do that, there may be years, (perhaps several years) that your fortunes go backwards.  If you start with 10 million, and a year later have 8 million and a struggling company, how much do you owe in taxes??

Nothing, you lost money. You get a refund of your estimated taxes, because they are just estimates, when you didnt actually earn it, you don't pay taxes.

Now fast forward to the next year when you sell the business to a larger company for 20 million, subtract the basis of 10 million you started with, and you get socked with a bill for 10 million at 35%, or over one third of your gain. (3 million 5 hundred thousand Federal plus $463,000 Colorado Income tax . ( $3,963,000.00 total aprox.)

This dumbing down of America is almost as criminal as the class warfare the left practices.  You even eat your own.  Thou fool.  

I can't say what kind of a representative Jared would be.  His politics and mine don't match.  But anyone who would not vote for him because he is successful and plays by the rules, is either a Marxist Idiot, or a completely ignorant of how the economy works.  Ignorant voter are dangerous.

Do you only want losers as Democrats???  Cause that is what you are asking for if you continue to treat your winners this way.  

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
We're in trouble...
When NEWSMAN is making more sense than most of the Dems here...

I want a representative who has been very successful in their professional career and is intelligent but plays no tricks in how they pay their taxes.

By this measure, all 3 candidates pass with flying colors. Yes JP paid no taxes some years. He also paid 18 mil in total taxes. I don't think there's an issue here.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
what a revelation. Late-breaking news. Thanks, Newsman.
.
"Ignorant voter are dangerous."

Stop the presses.  
.

[ Parent ]
NEWSMAN
If you READ this entire post you can see that Danny, David and I all posted that there wasn't much issue with this BEFORE YOU !

Some of us Rube Democrats got it, apparenty before you did.

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

[ Parent ]
Then your not the RUBES I was talking about, right.
No worries.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
OK
Newsman, I give you the benefit of the doubt that your comment above was directed to leadville lenny only then.

Not all Democrats are wealth redistribution layabout hippys, but I know you know that anyway.


" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

[ Parent ]
Its not JUST Leadville Lenny,
but its not most of my Democrat friends here at pols either.

If you felt I was lumping all Democrats together, I amend my comments to the above.

HOWEVER, all the remaining Democrat candidates for President (Plus John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich) are in the soak the rich, class warfare, two Americas group IMHO.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
it worked as JFG would have wanted it to
I found myself backing JP up at a party the other night as somebody said just that: "he -- didn't -- pay -- taxes!!!" [aghast, breathless tone].  And even after I said, 'yea, but he lost money those years' the reply was, "so what, he still should have been paying taxes."  And this was a very politically aware and active CD-2 voter.  So if that person represents the normal response to this story, JP is in big trouble.

In fact, I just registered
www.veryliberalagitatedpissedoffpeoplewithnoorganization.com
-Laughing Boy
I disagree - It's the Democrat Party that's in big trouble !
So if that person represents the normal response to this story, JP is in big trouble.

You Lib's are chocking on your soak the rich, Tax cuts for the wealthiest rhetoric. On average, this man pays more taxes than 100 of the average Democrat voters. If he stops (Dies, moves to the Bahamas, etc.) That's more taxes every one of you must cough up, or face cuts in those vital government services you keep talking about. How do you think it is possible to have tax brackets that allow some low wage earners to pay little or no taxes every year? Because the risk takers pay millions the years they are winners.  

Successful guys and Gals like your buddy Jared make it so you need pay less per dollar.  He is not a robber baron.  He is an American, living the American Dream, and willing to take a big pay cut to give back by representing you.  

But your not smart enough to hire him, you'll vote in some career bureaucrat that talks the party line and hasn't had an original idea since Moby Dick was a minnow.

You will reap the result of your narrow minds.

And you wonder why I am no longer a Democrat.  I passed economics 101.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
Democrat party? what's that? Never heard of it?
Oh by the way.

If there is class warfare in the US we know which class is winning.  

[ Parent ]
Yes, the winning class.
But they may have been poor , or middle class last year.  That's the great ting about America, you may be born to a family in the lower middle class, and you may achieve things that raise you to the upper class.  

It also works the other way too.

My family was once on food stamps, and a few years ago I was in the top bracket for several years.

STOP the class warfare.  You are ruining whats great about this country.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
What's great about this country
Is what it used to be able to do for people.

It is very hard for disadvantaged people to move up the ladder these days.  When Danny talks about the upper class winning, and you agree, what you're talking about isn't the upper class getting more money than the lower class - of course that's true, and it is in and of itself no problem.  No - the upper class winning the class war is, having gained their power, they insist on using it to gain even more at the expense of the lower classes.

Let's not conflate the two.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
So how is the good liberal Jarred doing that exactly?


Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
It's the party of the Democrats

But you can't call them democratic when they want to deny a secret ballot to workers.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
Oh pshaw
I never call the GOP the American Fascist Party despite their desire to suspend our constitution.
[ Parent ]
And I don't think all members of the Democrat party

hold undemocratic views.  But some die hard union activists clearly do.

I don't whine when other polsters call the Republicans pubs, or other abbreviated names.

My Dad, Mom, Grandfather and Grandmother were Democrats. I have no inherent animosity for Democrats.  

Now as to your assertion about the GOP. That is demonstrably false.  The GOP has adopted no platform I know of that validates your charge. If you are referring to the patriot act, I disagree, and so does the courts that uphold its many challenged provisions.

Many Democrats voted for that act that was passed and reauthorized by a majority of the US Congress.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
When you mistate anothers name
You are also probably mistating their position.

Where I come the first is called disrespect and the second is called a lie.

You make yourself look less and less credible every time you mistate the facts, mistate somethings name or mistating someone's position to create a strawman.

You are too smart for your actions to be anything less than purposeful misinformation and disrespect.

[ Parent ]
Well, Thanks for your opinion Danny.
Mine is

Naming a country The German Democratic Republic (DDR), or a political party Democratic, does not make them such.

Democrats and Republicans do not agree on everything.

There is no misinformation in my statements above.  The are opinions, and are therefore accurate because I claim them as my own.  Those opinions you claim can accurately be said to be your opinions.

I make no statement about your parties positions when I address a member of it as a Democrat.

Do you think a person that calls me a "pub " is doing this>

When you mistate anothers name
You are also probably mistating their position.


Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
Seriously - Re: "Pubs"

Is a person that uses that just abbreviating Republican, or is he being deliberately derogatory and presenting an insult?

Would you rather I referred to the party as the Dem's?  I will try to remember to do that if that makes a positive difference to you.

Now if you want to know why I call my former party Democrat, and often avoid calling it Democratic, I will tell you.

But I assure you, it is not to deliberately piss you off.  You don't win friends and influence people by deliberately kicking sand in their face.  

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
chill, bud
i actually agree with you

http://indipol.wordpress.com/2...

In fact, I just registered
www.veryliberalagitatedpissedoffpeoplewithnoorganization.com
-Laughing Boy

[ Parent ]
Indipol has a very good synopsis of this.
Now, the reality is that

in the years he paid no taxes he lost money (anywhere from $250K to $2.5M);
he paid over $18M in taxes in his two years in the black while Joan paid a total of $65K; and
in the most recent year he did make money and thus paid taxes his bracket was far higher than Fitz-Gerald's.
Joan's tax bracket jumped around a bit but in 2006 it was 3.5% and for Jared in the same year it was 14.0% (and 14.8% for WS). Over the entire history of their returns Polis paid an average of 16%, Will 14% and Joan 12% (total tax divided by AGI).

Polis' tax return history is absolutely legit. He's an entrepreneur. He starts companies, he takes major risks, and sometimes he gets rewarded for his risks. When he gets rewarded he pays his share of taxes. When his companies are in the red, he doesn't pay taxes (I'm not sure what the story is for 2001). Nobody in CD-2 should have a problem with this.

http://indipol.wordpress.com/2...


Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
Yeah, Newsman...
you need to settle down a bit. You take a few responses and automatically assume all Democrats think the same way and you were a jerk about it to boot.

On this particular issue I actually agree too (and I haven't thrown my support behind any of the candidates up there). The only thing about this is that it does look bad to the average voter when they're struggling and paying taxes and he's living very comfortably and not paying them at all. I'm not saying it's wrong, it just looks bad.

Don't get me wrong, btw, there are some things you wrote about that I don't agree with.

[ Parent ]
Chris

I have been listening to the false rhetoric of the left on class envy for far too long.

I am used to it and can justify the left using this nonsense when its to defeat the Republican.  Telling whoppers to slime the Conservative seams to be regular fair for the left.

But when they do it to their own, when it appears they actually believe this nonsense, when I see idiotic posts like:

No taxes in five years is an embarrassment to any candidate. There are enough charitable and corporate loopholes for Jared and other millionaires to soak up the American dream and owe nothing to Uncle Sam. Keep "living the life" Jared, and the little people will keep paying the taxes.

This guy is not a Democrat, he is too greedy even for the money worshipping Republicans.  He belongs to the robber baron party.

I just can't smile and be silent.  I must speak up.

I am not calling any one a derogatory name here.  I am saying the policy, the position is idiotic, backward, foolish wrong, stupid and a few more descriptive words.

That people actually believe you should pay INCOME taxes when you have a loss, and therefore no net INCOME is mind boggling.

No intent to be mean or unkind.

But I really love this one.

For every 1 person Jared's people are able to convince this legit, he loses 100 more that he won't have time to reach between now and the election.

Remember, I didn't just admit your voters are idiots that won't see or understand the facts. And that is a problem for everyone.

The Democrat party playbook of class warfare is so ingrained, 99 out of 100 of you actually think this successful guy has done something wrong. Or did I read that wrong?

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
Keep going NEWSMAN
you are beating the stuffing out of that straw man !

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

[ Parent ]
Let's see here, you said...
How totally without economic understanding are you rube Democrats?

But anyone who would not vote for him because he is successful and plays by the rules, is either a Marxist Idiot, or a completely ignorant of how the economy works.

But your not smart enough to hire him.

You will reap the result of your narrow minds.

And you wonder why I am no longer a Democrat. I passed economics 101.

These all sound insulting to me. You don't have to call anyone a derogatory name to be a jerk. Your high and mighty, I'm right about this and everything else attitude doesn't become you. Actually, scratch that, it does.

Moving on (and you may not like this), but there is a real class struggle in this country. The system is not made to accommodate people changing classes and I have no doubt it actually makes it harder. The American Dream that you talk about is unrealistic for most people. You can't use a few examples to say that everyone can do it if they just try hard enough. Not everyone can be rich. The country would not be sustainable that way. There has to be a middle and lower class for it to work and it's nearly impossible to move between the classes. You say were wrong about class struggle, well I say your wrong about everyone pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. It's simplistic nonsense.

The fact is, people are struggling, my friend. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it's false. The average citizen has a good reason to feel like their getting screwed while the people at the top can use their economic means to weasel out of paying their full amount of taxes.

Unfortunately, in this argument, some people take it too far and don't use reason... on both sides. I don't agree with that.

Lastly, you did read that wrong. Was there a vote I didn't know about that says 99% of us think he did wrong? I don't know if he acted deviously, but he used the system that's in place to pay the least amount of taxes. To me, he wasn't wrong, the system is. And no, I'm not saying he should have paid taxes when he had no net income.

[ Parent ]
Let's see..
Main Entry: rube  
Pronunciation: ˈrüb\
Function: noun
1 : an unsophisticated person : rustic
2 : a naive or inexperienced person

OK, so accurate use of the language, but you object to the conclusion.

Almighty God uses the flat tax.  I am not as smart as he, so I defer to his judgment. It does, to the thinking person, appear to be the fair thing to do, as no matter how much you earn, you pay more taxes the greater the amount, and the same rate no matter who you are.

But would never pass because: Congress can't social engineer, and it can't be explained to those not smart or educated enough to understand economics.

I understand there is much to do.  But you must admit our tax system is broken.  Not because of the Jarred example, but because each year when a hypothetical set information for one family of taxpayers is submitted by money magazine to 100 tax preparers across the country, Not one gets it right.  It is far too complicated and therefore very unfair.

We must be careful when lumping gross income for a business enterprise into simple examples of your family tax situation.  You can have millions in income, but yet after expenses have less than zero in net income and zero tax liability.

Yes, people are struggling, and they always will be.  Yesterday the American poor struggled to feed themselves and some lived in half dirt dugout homes with newspaper for wallpaper, no electricity or plumbing (my mother as a child), and today they struggle with 2 color TV's and a car or two.  Home ownership among the lowest 25% of American adults is at its all time high.

We are the envy of the world, our walls are built to keep unauthorized people out, not to keep them in a la the Berlin wall.

I am living proof that a poor family in 2 generations can go from the lowest quarter to the top. I did it with no government help or family fortune.

I know several guys here in the Springs that got out of school, the air force, or the army, and worked in construction, real estate, retail, the service industry (etc.) and today have a net worth exceeding one million dollars.  Not guys I have read about, guys I have worked with, friends, (one is a former employee of mine).  None of these guys had family money, or hand outs.  

So my dear Chris, it not only can be done, it has been one.  I have done it. And you can attest to the fact that I am not all that smart. Right?

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
lets go through all this
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them naive i.e. Rube.  BTW I thought the big problem with us libruls is that we were citified wine drink latte loving elitists? i.e. definitely not rustic.

Jesus also said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24).  Greed is not defensible in the bible.  It took 1000's of years to allow people to earn income on capital. Ever hear of usary?

I'll agree with you agout the complexity of the tax code and I think a flat tax is worth exploring.  However tax on wealth is far less than tax on work.  Jared would have paid more than twice his taxes if his work to build a company was taxed as work not as a tax on wealth.  If there was a large personal exemption I could look at a flat tax as long as it treated tax on wealth the same.  Problem is to be tax neutral it would have to be in the the 20-25% range.

The US is not the envy of the world, our standard of living is lower than much of Europe and the desperation is growing.

Bootstrapping does occur, but it is not the rule and as Chris said we are still going to need folks to clean the toilets and cut our hair: those folks need dignity too.

[ Parent ]
Dignity?
I Love the woman that cuts my hair. (My Daughter.)

She earned a good income from her salary and tips when she worked full time.  She is now in college studying to be a nurse.

In my company, the staff took turns cleaning the restrooms, starting with the managers.  I had a policy that a supervisor could not ask any employee to do any job (out of their specialty) if the supervisor had not done the job themselves.

My General Manager did windows.  He still does.  He owns his own company now, and still follows the same policy.

The US has fallen behind where it could be due to excessive progressive labeled liberalism.  Our corporate tax rate is higher than some of the socialist countries in Europe.  They have learned that lower tax rates mean higher production, and more tax dollars.  The average tax rate for corporations has fallen from over 50% to 30%.  

In the last few years, the corporate tax rate was cut in Denmark, France, Ireland, Germany, Poland, and Portugal, as well as many countries outside of Europe.  Even socialistic Sweden has a top corporate tax rate of just 28 percent.

http://www.businessweek.com/ma...
http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/t...

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
I'll remember this discussion in the future…
If I ever want to insult all Republicans and conservatives, I'll just add a note at the end that says: "If you are a Republican and/or conservative, this describes you... unless you agree with me... then were cool."

Flat tax: Like Danny, I would be open to exploring this as well. The only exception I would have is for people that don't make enough money to meet a reasonably estimated cost of living (as I have said before). If they can pay for food, they shouldn't pay taxes. Otherwise, I could see it working. You're probably right in the end anyway. I don't see that passing.

Yes, I agree are tax system is broken and overly confusing.

I agree with Danny that we are far from the envy of the world.

You being living proof of moving between classes does not make it common and talking about your friends that have done the same. I'm sure I can give you more examples of people that have worked hard all their lives (two jobs while trying to go to school sort of stuff) that never moved out of their class. Anecdotes don't work, so let's look at reality.

Dignity is not living hungry and/or ill because medical care is unaffordable.

Your company sounds great! If it was representative of all corporations, I might consider them reasonably fair.

Lower taxes can work for countries that don't have a huge army force in Iraq. Furthermore, socialistic Sweden has also has also discovered that you can still have a strong economy with high taxes (as their overall taxes are much higher).

As for you being smart: I think you are incredibly intelligent... for a conservative. :)

[ Parent ]
When quoting the Bible
I often hear "Money is the root of all evil"

But Christ never said that.  He said
"The LOVE of money is the root of all evil"
Big difference!

Not paying more in taxes than the law allows, or not voting for higher taxes is not generally greed (I guess it can be a lot of things.) But not prima facie greed.
Good sence comes to mind.

The government is not and does not satisfy my responsibility to God and my fellow men. Nor should it.  Those voluntary gifts or sacrifices are mine to make by my own free will and choice.  Not yours (anothers) to make for me, and/or compel me to do through government. The more I pay to the goverment, the less I have left to do the right or wrong thing with.

Government is meant to provide the temporal things of structure, roads, courts, security, Army, Police, Fire protection.  Not to guarantee an equal outcome or make one do what another citizens thinks he should do with his earnings or his capitol.

"rustic" was not the part of the multiple meanings I had in mind.

naive or inexperienced
was more what I was intending. That was in reference to the expressed opinion that one who loses money in a given tax period should still pay INCOME taxes with no INCOME.


Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
Honestly
You take a few responses and automatically assume all Democrats think the same way

I did not, and I do not.

Not all Republicans think the same way either.  Just read the 3 way battles for CD-5 if you doubt it. Or McCain vs Romney vs Huckabee vs Duncan Hunter.

If what I said made you think I meant that, I amend.

Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !

[ Parent ]
Its legal, but it highlights a problem
In addition to being a political problem it highlights the perversity of the tax system which taxes labor and lets wealth get off for a pittance.

Its like Warren Buffet says 'show me a hedge fund manager that pays a higher tax rate than his secretary'

We need to get wealth and work back on an equal footing.

I'm not going to wack Polis on this, I don't think there is anything unethical about this.  I think he played by the rules--I just think the rules are wrong.

But that won't stop others from making the easy campaign commercial.

I didn't see a story here
Maybe it's because I've also been in the high-tech start-up world most of my working life but this is how it works.

And to say someone should pay taxes when they lose money - that doesn't make any sense. Yes the rates should be different but I never think you should tax a loss.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

Not much to go on there
If you're losing money, no taxes - even if you're a millionaire.  You pay taxes when you get income, and it's as simple as that.

I do have to question how $116m income translates to only $18m of taxes...  I haven't seen the forms (no time, sorry...), so I'm guessing the discrepancy comes from other investments made with the money or from capital gains rates.  Still, good marginal rate there.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
That's precisely what it is
Its the Cap gains advantage. Its the the Hedgefund tax break.

Jared didn't do anything wrong--its the system that is wrong.

[ Parent ]
Hates it.
Although if I were to meet anyone halfway on the issue, it would be exactly here.  People who invest their money in a company directly (or through IPO stocks) and receive a return on investment from actually contributing to the growth of the company deserve some kind of incentive IMHO - or at least something over the hordes of investors who are purchasing into the near-Ponzi scheme that is the current stock market system.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating
[ Parent ]
David, I have given up on you...
You are completely biased or blinded by your candidate.Your undying support, no matter what the issue is getting nauseating.This story broke last Friday and Pols could not even touch it for three days because of the perception that Jared can buy his office, tax free.

 Most people are taxed at almost 1/3 of their income - even when Polis was paying, he never paid near that figure.Those in the a high tech start-up world are living in a bubble of fast money made very quickly. As a candidate, Polis has no idea how the other half lives. This revelation gives the perception of one incapable of realizing the economic woes of the voter. You are one of the few that will be able to identify with Jared.  

[ Parent ]
Now, now...
I haven't been the kindest to Polis in my analysis of the CD-2 news cycle, but I think you're way off-base here.

As discussed below, Jared is only paying what the IRS is asking of him.  Capital gains are taxed now at 15%, and that rate would be even lower if the GOP had its way.  That Jared happened to be successful in starting several businesses - and in selling them off - should not be held against him; to the contrary, his successful business ventures show initiative and invention.

It would be more informative to see a debate on tax policy come out of this, as Danny indicates below.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
Polis' worth.............
Polis is worth in the hundreds of millions according to his own financial filings.  At a minimum rate of interest/total rates of return, he has undoubtedly made tens of millions interest/capital gains.  If he chose, he could have paid himself significant compensation as the CEO, which would have been subject to income tax rates for the very wealthy, much reduced by Bush.  He chose to follow every tax avoidance scheme available to the very rich not to pay taxes over the 5 year period.  Even when he did pay taxes, he avoided any "earned" income as a CEO or other executive and paid only the low capital rate for the sale of "his companies", very much impressed with himself that the rest of us suckers were paying taxes on earned income.  Now he very much expects to be acknowdeged as smarter and richer than us dumb taxpayers and expects us to elect him to Congress, where he achieves the ultimate irony, being paid by the suckers who did pay taxes and actually voted for him.

This guy is not a Democrat, he is too greedy even for the money worshipping Republicans.  He belongs to the robber baron party.
 

[ Parent ]
He could have
But is there any reason why he should have?  As you note, he's rich.  As a rich person, he can afford to take the money he might have paid himself and instead invest it in the company he's trying to build.  The real money return was on the sale of the company, not on the actual company profits (though by all accounts the companies were/are profitable...) - that money wasn't there until the company was sold.

The practice I describe above is good business sense; he increased the potential success of the business, sped its growth (read: more employees sooner), and sacrificed his pay to do so.

You're not voting for Jared - fine.  But unless you can explain to me better than what you've done already just how Jared's actions were unethical, you're not doing your cause any favors.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
The reason why he should have
chosen to pay himself compensation and have been subject to income tax is because he also reaped the benefits of federal projects and agencies that the "unwealthy" were paying for. His "ethical" sense of fair play and justice was sorely lacking. He was clearly interested in personal gain which is his perogative however......

If he is looking for a leadership and representative role, then he should be thinking about the common welfare and in good conscience pay his fair share of taxes. Yeah, he may have hired more tax paying employees but to say Jared Polis "sacrificed" to do so is outrageous.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and Steve Forbes all pay taxes.

[ Parent ]
???
Could you elaborate on that first paragraph?  Are you saying Jared was on Welfare or Medicare?  I'm missing something.

If Jared had wanted to truly dodge his tax responsibility, there were far better ways than paying the straight-up capital gains tax rate.  Heck, my tax rate is lower than his was thanks to mortgage interest.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Steve Forbes all run established businesses.  They pay themselves to run those businesses because there is no significant advantage to the business in delaying their income.  And all of them pay the same capital gains rate as Jared paid when they pay on their investment earnings.


"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
I'll elaborate, you are missing something..
He enjoyed the benefits of tax payer dollars which support the National Park Service, the federal highway sytem, the National Institue of Health, the protection of the FAA, FBI, DEA,TSA,CIA,EPA,FAA, FTC,FCC and Food and Drug Administration,the Export Import Bank of the US and currently the FEC and of course the support of our armed services.
[ Parent ]
And he paid for them
In fact he paid $18+ million when he made a profit from selling the company, and he contributed to tax-paying employment by not taking a personal salary.

There's no satisfying some people.  You're rapidly falling into "don't argue with a mule" territory.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
Fortunately he has you to set him straight :)
As a candidate, Polis has no idea how the other half lives.


Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Not a problem
What do people want, him to pay taxes AGAIN on the same income ?  If he starts up unprofitable enterprises after that he isn't making money, so there is no income to taz.

I am not a Jared supporter but I really don't see anything here.

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

That's income to TAX
Don't taz me bro !  

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche

[ Parent ]
I liked it better the first time. LOL.


Some men see things as they are, and ask why! ...I dream things that could be and ask,  Why Not !
[ Parent ]
Pols is right
There doesn't seem to be anything illegal here (right? I'm not a lawyer), but that isn't the point. People hearing that a multi-millionaire doesn't pay taxes is highly damaging. Sure there is an explanation...but if you have to explain in politics you have already lost the battle. For every 1 person Jared's people are able to convince this legit, he loses 100 more that he won't have time to reach between now and the election.
Here is to hoping
That the other two candidates don't use honest tax returns that show no evil in a manner that misconstrues their meaning.

People can talk about this and will, but these are honest tax returns (or at least I'm taking them as such on a surface summary reading...) and we don't need to go there in order to have a good candidate debate.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
I agree
But it would be a useful jumping off point to talk about tax policy.

All three candidates have similar views on what government should do(taking Jared at his word on vouchers).  I like will the best because I think he can lead on environmental issues and has the disposition to stay in congress long enough to get soemthing done.

However, there has been almost no discussion on tax and fiscal issues.  Bizarrely, I find the 'how do you pay for stuff' the most interesting question.  Clearly the GOP borrow and spend model has screwed this country, but no one is saying what the tax code should look like.  Contrary to what the supply side mythologist believe, tax cuts do not result in tax reciept increases when taxes are at the levels we had during the 90's.

Here's where this cuts for Jared: Art Laffer works for Jared and Art Laffer was one of the founders of Supply side Reaganomics.  I won't wack Jared for playing by the rules, but I think voters deserve to know what he thinks the tax code should look like and whether it should favor work or wealth.

[ Parent ]
tax code

We should treat labor capital and investment capital more similarly under the tax code.

However, we also need to index the capital gains rate to inflation so that it is only a tax on the real gain rather than the nominal gain.

For example, if you bought an investment property ten years ago for $50,000 and it is now worth $100,000, the nominal gain is $50,000 but the real gain after accounting for inflation (in this case using a 5% index for the sake of this model) is closer to $39,000.

Some people are even paying capital gains tax on a real loss, if they held a marginal investment for many years.

Our current tax structure not only discriminates against labor capital (e.g work), but it also discriminates against long term holdings in favor of short term speculation (of one year to three years). Excess speculation hurts the economy, and encouraging it through effectively penalizing long term holdings is counterproductive.

As for Art Laffer, it's not accurate to say he works for me. He runs Laffer and Associates (an economics consulting firm) and Laffer Investments. I value his business perspective and have brought him onto the boards of several companies I have founded or co-founded.

We have had many public policy debates over dinner and cocktails over the years and don't find agreement on many issues, although he did support Bill Clinton twice.

Jared Polis
www.polisforcongress.com

[ Parent ]
Fair enough Jared
I agree with you on indexing.

I take your word for it on your conversations with Laffer.  However, since you are the major shareholder in your companies, Laffer works for you.  It may not be his only job, but I'm assuming you pay him for his time.  

[ Parent ]
Correct

My only problem with your terminology "Art Laffer works for Jared" is that it insinuates that he is a full-time employee or works under my direction. He would probably take issue with that more than me!

Perhaps my qualm is just a nuance of the English language, but you are more correct with your clarification. However, as an independent director of any corporation that I am involved with, he has a fiduciary responsibility that goes beyond "working for Jared."

Jared Polis
www.polisforcongress.com

[ Parent ]
His fiducciary duty is to the shareholders
you are the shareholder.  The difference is semantic.

I agree that he would probably take issue with the terminology, but I take issue with his supply side legacy which is based on far worse lazy thinking.

[ Parent ]
That is the more important point
The truth is you pay more tax if you have lots of income in one year and then none for two years than if you have even income over three years.  Maybe most people don't understand this, but the other CD2 candidates certainly do.  They may have the choice to deputize ignorance as a campaign ally, but, I agree, here's hoping they don't.
[ Parent ]
In this case, it's the same
Regardless of whether you make a zillion in investments or a more minimal $50k, it's all taxed at the same 15% rate for capital gains.

If he were making money through, in Jared's words "labor capital" (i.e. getting paid to work), he would be taxed progressively, but capital gains are the special sanctuary of the rich, and the GOP spends much time protecting it from equitable taxation.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
New math, in which $18.4 million = $0
Above Colorado Pols writes: "The ads write themselves: "Jared Polis, millionaire, doesn't pay taxes."

From the story there is also this graf: The returns also show a couple of years when he posted a total of more than $120 million in adjusted gross income and more than $18.4 million in taxes paid.

The ads may write themselves, but do the stories in the Camera read themselves? Evidently not.

need the name of his tax lawyer
So he paid less than 10% in taxes on net income of $120 million. I sure would like to have the name of his tax lawyer. The tax lawyer and Bill Taylor would be the two hottest lawyers in the State.  
You suck at math
18.4 is 15.33% of 120. And that's basically the capital gains tax rate. The system sucks (and I benefit from it) but that's not Jared's fault.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
what Jared needs to do, is release information re: how much he donates to charities......assuming, of course, that he gives a big chunk of his money away
....and then challenge his opponents to do that same.
  I suppose if he had thought about the political ramifications of how his tax liability would look during a Congressional campaign, he could have simply refused to claim the business losses and paid taxes which he did not owe.
  Of course, then we'd see the ad headline, "The fool paid money that he didn't even owe..."
CD-2 Candidate Tax Returns: More Bad News for Polis | 64 comments
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