Weekend Open Thread

“Do not depend on the enemy not attacking, but depend on a position that cannot be attacked.”

–Sun Tzu, from The Art of War

87 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. MADCO says:

    none of the above.

    52.3      47.4

    So that would be more than 4, less than 5.

    by: MADCO @ Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:21:49 AM MDT

    Colorado final:

    Votes  2 363 881

    Obama 1,238,490   52.392%

    Romney 1,125,391  47.607%

    Romney over performed my model by 0.2%

    President  Obama won Arapahoe and Jefferson counties.

    I thought he’d need 40% in ElPaso to hit my number- he got just 38. Of course, I thought Douglas County would get to the low 70’s for Romney- and he barely got to 70.

    The demographic math and analysis should continue.  It’s like the census – only better.  We should know who we are. We should know who votes and who doesn’t- and why.

    I have a friend who worked for OFA in eastern Ohio.  He’s the one who first explained Pennsytucky to me.  After June he was never worried, their voter reg/GOTV was just too good.

    Apparently, so was Colorado’s – thank you OFA.

    BTW  – yes, Obama carried the Catholic vote. Again.

    Some will say it’s because they just couldn’t vote for a Mormon. Some- but I doubt that’s the real math. Most latino voters self id Catholic.  

    I know Obama didn’t win white men over 50.  Not sure which presidents have done that.

    But 14% of Romney voters are likely to die before the next presidential election.  15% of potential voters in that same election were not eligible to vote in this one.

    And until the R’s can explain the significance of the election of 1928, it’s no Presidents for them. (Thank the Republican God for gerrymandering!)

    • parsingreality says:

      …Oh, wait.  Moi?  🙂

      Is this too simplified?  If 2/3 of the OWM reliably vote Republican, and 2/3 of the younger new voters vote Democratic, that there can be a 20% shift in voter sentiments in 2016?

      Please help me understand your comment about the election of 1928.  I’m in the dark.  

      • MADCO says:

        R won president – and carried Ohio, of course.

        Last R Presidential victory without Nixon or a Bush on the ticket.


        The GOTP hated (s) Obama.  They were convinced of their correctness and believed that ABO would win.  What they don’t understand is (too much to list) that hating the incumbent is rarely enough to win.

        The R’s hated FDR back when.  He just kept winning.

        They hated LBJ more than papa Joe- he won.

        Tehy hated carter- but that’s not why Carter lost. They hated Clinton just as much (1996) and Bill won.

        They hated Obama in 2008. Hated him as much or more last week.

        It’s not how you win.  You need a candidate to love.

    • AristotleAristotle says:

      I believe nationally that his total is 47.9% I saw a tweet about that.

      Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha……

  2. AndrewBateman says:


    You guys have to check this site out. They are billing they’ve as a place, like Facebook, for adults to network and socialize free from “liberal monitoring” (and pesky “facts”).

    I have already created my sock puppet account. There is some pretty good comedy happening in there.

    • parsingreality says:

      Leave it off the URL.  

    • AristotleAristotle says:

      The only thing that I’m really getting pissed about is how cons just can’t stand to be exposed to the truth. Media critical of some of their leaders and ideas? Create their own! Wikipedia critical of some of their leaders and ideas? Create their own! Facebook expose them to people who disagree? Create their own!

      It’s the opposite of adult behavior when you cover your ears, close your eyes, and scream “la la la” until what you don’t want to see and hear goes away.

  3. Albert J. Nock says:

    Check out this picture taken at Idaho Springs.  


    • parsingreality says:

      …and knew it was you.

      You need to find less paranoid sourcing, Albert. No, I didn’t click on the link, just look at the name of it.

    • AristotleAristotle says:

      Nock, someone needs to put you in a time machine and send to to Nazi Germany. Or matbe Argentina in 1981. THAT was a fucking police state.

      You dumb fucking fuck.

      • Albert J. Nock says:

        Hey Ari,

        Aristotle favored private property and opposed communal property; you had better change your screen name here at CPols…

        Men … are easily induced to believe that in some wonderful manner everybody will become everybody’s friend, especially when some one is heard denouncing the evils now existing in states, suits about contracts, convictions for perjury, flatteries of rich men and the like, which are said to arise out of the possession of private property. These evils, however, are due to a very different cause-the wickedness of human nature. (II.1263b15)

        • AristotleAristotle says:

          I’m not calling myself the ancient Greek philosopher. It’s my real first name.

          Okay, no it’s not my real first name. But my handle isn’t my claim to specifically be a wise philosopher. I’ve explained it several times in the past, so if you want to use more, learn how to use google advanced search and find those posts of mine.

          Also, the issue of property is not so black and white as you make it. (Surprise! Nothing is black and white, except to those possessing simple minds.) Also, your quote is missing requisite quotation marks; and since it’s a complete non sequitur here, your use of it illustrates that you don’t understand it at all.

  4. BlueCat says:

    has proclaimed it’s desire to become our 51st state, a Texas Repugnantcan has offered a perfect solution to the potential problem of redesigning our 50 star flag.

    As some Republicans continue to cope with the prospect of another four years under President Barack Obama, a Texas GOP official is floating a simple way out: cleaving his state from the union.

    Peter Morrison, treasurer of the Hardin County Republican Party, wrote a column in the post-election edition of his Tea Party newsletter this week calling for an “amicable divorce” from the U.S., the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports.

    “Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?” he wrote. “Let each go her own way.”

    Morrison went on to express anger at the “maggots” who backed Obama, specifically calling out non-white voters, whom he accused of voting for the president on an “ethnic basis.”


    As a proud, though not African American, maggot (we Obama supporting maggots come in all flavors) may I just say, what a great idea. We can have Puerto Rico and keep our flag as is.  

    • Albert J. Nock says:

      I doubt the Feds will let them go peacefully…

      • AristotleAristotle says:

        Treason is treason.

        • Albert J. Nock says:

          of treason.

          You goobs don’t even know what treason is,lol…

          Article 3 section 3.

          Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.  

          • AristotleAristotle says:

            That’s what the southern states did to the United States of America. They levied war against the United States (who fired the first shots, Nock? The CSA.)

            That nimrod in Texas is full of hot air, of course. He said that because it gives small-dick bigots like you wee little boners, but his would shrivel up like a salted slug if he actually faced an army division sent to stop his treasonous ass. As would yours.

            We see right through you, paper tiger. Keep on coming back and keep on being put in your place.

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            This from the imbecile who said Lincoln “waged treason” against the confederacy.

            Take notes, imbecile.  Treason is “committed,” not waged, as in the Confederate states comitted treason by “levying war” against the United States.

             War is “waged.”  As in Lincoln waged war against the treasonous Confederate governments, freed the slaves, and forever enshrined himself in the hearts of all real Americans.

             Nockworst, therefore, is not a real American.  He’s  just a piece of lunchmeat.  

      • BlueCat says:

        just a plain old grumpy white rightie Republican.  Yes, Nockwurst, I’m aware that Texas won’t actually choose to or be allowed to secede. Duh.

    • parsingreality says:

      ….were not voting on an ethnic/racial basis.  Right?  

      Don’t let the door and all the Federal dollars that Texas gets from the feds hit you on the ass on the way out.  

    • Whiskey Lima JulietWhiskey Lima Juliet says:

      Kind of like establishing a Liberia, for unwanted Texans.

      We can call it Texonia, it can be some island in the pacific.

      • MtSherman says:

        Okay, I know it is a joke, but it is not funny to talk about expelling people from their homes for unpatriotic talk. Let them talk and be angry and irrational. They can do it all they want because at the end of the day they are vanishingly small minority inside the group that voted Republican. Most Republicans are reasonable people, not nutjobs like Nock.

          • MtSherman says:

            I think that Texas is dominated by a majority who would consider succession talk to be crazy nonsense, I doubt a majority of Republicans would want to leave the Union. So the question of letting Texas go is nonsensical.

            That said, talk of succession is not treasonous. Talking seriously about succession is idiotic, foolish, and childish. As is talking of expelling people from their homes because they do not want to be Americans.

            Look at your words. They literally look like something a Serb would write about the Bosnians.

            • Whiskey Lima JulietWhiskey Lima Juliet says:

              Perhaps a sense of humor would be good for you to find.  If not humor, perhaps a grip on reality.  There is NO ONE that believes Texas will cease to be a part of the US.  Texonia? And you are talking Serbs? I don’t see how you got there! Lol

            • AristotleAristotle says:

              You don’t have to find it funny, but that doesn’t mean that she was making light of the real suffering experienced in real expulsions.

              • MtSherman says:

                Words have power and meaning. How many times have we liberals criticized, rightly, the putting of cross hairs over districts like that of Gabby Giffords. If when we say such things are unacceptably violent rhetoric for the right to use then we cannot hold ourselves to a different standard even when making a joke. There are some jokes, like joking about bombs (especially at airports), going up to a clock tower with a gun, or expelling people from their homes that are not acceptable.

                • AristotleAristotle says:

                  Your reliance on invalid comparisons to illustrate your point demonstrates its weakness. WLJ’s words do not possess the meaning you say they do.

                  You can’t play the “joking is not a valid excuse” card when no one is joking about ethnic cleansing. At the very worst, WLJ was distasteful. Your interpretation that it’s much worse isn’t shared by anyone. And yeah, that kind of judgment IS subject to a vote.

            • They can make light of severing our union, but we can’t make light of shoving them out. To false-equate this with ethnic cleansing is just begging for a great big GMAFB.

              MsMt: I now banish you to Texonia. Na na NA na. Next time: Passport, please.

      • davebarnesdavebarnes says:

        And, if they don’t, then we will hire “mexicans” to build the boats to ship them to Africa (which is the human homeland, after all).

    • thiokuutoo says:

      I enjoy laughing at the Republican apologists continuing to spout that their only problem is not getting their “conservative” message out; and the answer for the next election is to double down.  Tell them that the message is lost in the messangers hate rhetoric and they come up with all sorts of “we are not racists” spin. The maroons are racist and they are not going to change.

      The Republican party is gone, the shell is filled with Birchers, KKK and foil hat wearers.  I am still trying to figure out so many believed the lies and distortions of their former leader, RomneyRyan.

      Ryan will be back with his freaky crap though. We need the House.

    • MADCO says:

      not just 51, and never less than 50.

      • VanDammerVanDammer says:

        and howabout we get Belize, Costa Rica, and a few other sunny warm climes to the mix (hell, add Cuba).

        Not sure how the deep red Repugs would take to adding more stars to the stripes.  They’d sure look fwd to more land & resources to pillage & exploit but they’d sure bitch & moan about adding more welfare-dependent states and fear adding huge masses more folks to the Dem voting rosters.

        By what scenarios would we add another state?  DC should be a very easy addition but Repugs will fight that to their dying breath.  Guam or American Samoa?  Dominican Republic?  Never Haiti and likewise never Mexico.  Let’s play and have folks list 5 likely candidates in the next 100 yrs.

        • OK . . .

          1.  Puerto Rico — obvious.  Will happen sooner than later.

          2.  The Philippines — America will have many uses for a full-fledged state in the far East this century.  I think this is also a likely obvious, for geopolitical reasons.

          3.  US Virgin Islands — Next most likely contender.  Probably would need some kind of unexpected push like a major exploitable oil discovery.

          4.  Cuba — certainly not out of the realm of possibility as relations and trade normalize.  Late 21st century at the very earliest.

          5.  Mexico — not a high probability, but the political situation there is a question mark — may become the impetus for requested military assistance or intervention.  Oil, agriculture, damn fine beaches and an abundance of desirable develop-able land.  A personal favorite of mine.  America needs a better tail than Florida IMHO.

        • MADCO says:

          1. Puerto Rico – what are we waiting for?

          2. DC – see 1.

          3. Baja,

          4. Sonora,

          5 Sinaloa or Chihuahua

          3 & 4  were both supposed to be part of the Treay 1852 until Knox got bought off. (perhaps he was drunk – either way there was no excuse.)

          And 5 because it’s the only way to stabilize the border.

        • Panama

          And as long as we’re partitioning Mexico: Vera Cruz.

          And all of the above, with D.C. being first on the list.

          (Wow, we’re a bunch of imperialistic pigs, no?)

  5. parsingreality says:

    Or oaths defending the state and federal constitution.

    I no longer say the Pledge of Allegiance, part of my Quaker time seeing things with new eyes.  My nation, my government does not get unquestioning loyalty, which is what the plegdge states.


  6. Gray in Mountains says:

    and road conditions I’m not going to be able to join you at Rosa Linda’s

  7. parsingreality says:


    It’s official two hours ago, it’s Obama’s.

    50 to 49.1 percents. Outside of the range of mandatory recount, about 74,000 votes.


    Just wait until 2016!  We’ll be last in line again.

  8. Albert J. Nock says:

    Governed by consent or by force?

    If the States joined the union voluntarily, shall they not be allowed to exit peacefully?

    • MtSherman says:

      What state today is seriously talking of exiting the Union? Point to real data that more than half the population of a state no longer wish to be part of the union and I will take this up as a serious point of debate. Not a few representatives who are disgruntled about losing the game and wish to take their marbles and leave, the people of the state.

      • AristotleAristotle says:

        who “studied” the Civil War and believes the South was right. Since his values suffered as much of a defeat in this last election as the GOP*, he’s engaging in the fantasy of refighting it because it’s his only solace as of right now.

        * He claims to be some kinds of anti-Republican libertarian. I’m not sure if he means he’s a member of the Libertarian Party. BlueCat thinks that’s bs and that he really is a Republican. Whatever the truth, since the GOP was flying the flag of the views he routinely espouses, he lost, whether he voted GOP or not.

  9. parsingreality says:

    Maybe six months ago NPR had a skit that was done dead pan serious, discussing the effects of the “recent” Texas secession.

    Secretary of State Kinky Friedman said that the first priority is to export Texas’ Big Hair Technology.

    An average Texan complained how long a fun trip to New Orleans now took with border crossings both ways.

    There were observations about how Texans were suddenly having to pay for things that had come from Washington. Oh, you know, defense, school lunches, postal service, research support, and on and on.

    In fact, Texas would have to increase taxes because like all blowhard states, they receive more in funding and services than they send to Washington.


  10. Albert J. Nock says:

    Check out this Russia Today story in which famous actor Gerard Depardieu is fleeing France because France has enacted a 75% top tier tax rate.

    You can raise tax rates all you want but it will not generate more revenue and often less. People will move or stop producing.

    Noboby wants to be a slave, not even white people.


  11. Albert J. Nock says:

    Look CPolsters,

    Everybody but you slavery deniers knows what is going on.

    • rocco says:

      You were given a specific task, to source your “50% of Americans are on the dole” claim.

      Again, like the grumpy, whining, older white entitlement receiving hater of people on entitlements, you’ve thrown out a fantastic claim you probably got from Drudge.

      Now you gleefully paste this Kudlow clip, seemingly delighted that these frauds are blaming anything bad that might happen on President Obama.

      Do you not realize your entitlements will get jerked if everyone on them loses theirs?

      Or do you just hate America because your President……….our President……….is not completely white?

      Give you credit though. Unlike diapertad and the other pinkos, you keep coming back.

      Having said that, do the work…..for once…source your claim.

  12. Driver8 says:

    How did it go? Sorry, I had to go work at my middle class union job. 😉  

  13. BlueCat says:

    It’s so satisfying to see both the big money of today’s would be gilded age robber barons and their party’s strategy of holding back the demographic tide with voter suppression so decisively defeated. On the astounding backfiring of the nationwide, highly organized, stupendously well funded Republican voter suppression drive, this from Ari Berman of “The Nation:

    Take a look at Ohio, where Ohio Republicans limited early voting hours as a way to decrease the African-American vote, which made up a majority of early voters in cities like Cleveland and Dayton. Early voting did fall relative to 2008 as a result of Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted’s cutbacks in early voting days and hours, but the overall share of the black electorate increased from 11 percent in 2008 to 15 percent in 2012. More than anything else, that explains why Barack Obama once again carried the state.

    I spent the weekend before the election in black churches in Cleveland, and there’s no doubt in my mind that the GOP’s push to curtail the rights of black voters made them even more motivated to cast a ballot. “When they went after big mama’s voting rights, they made all of us mad,” said Reverend Tony Minor, Ohio coordinator of the African American Ministers Leadership Council. According to CBS News: “More African-Americans voted in Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida than in 2008.”

    The same thing happened with the Latino vote, which increased as a share of the electorate (from 9 percent in 2008 to 10 percent in 2012) and broke even stronger for Obama than in 2008 (from 67-31 in 2008 to 71-27 in 2012, according to CNN exit polling). The share of the Latino vote increased in swing states like Nevada (up 4 percent), Florida (up 3 percent) and Colorado (up 1 percent). Increased turnout and increased support for Obama among Latinos exceeded the margin of victory for the president in these three swing states.


    As Andrew Cohen of The Atlantic wrote:

    If there is one thing this election has proven, if there is one thing I have come to know, it is that Americans don’t like it when their right to vote is threatened. The very people whose votes the Republicans sought to suppress came out to vote. In places like Akron and Orlando and Denver and Milwaukee, they came. They waited in long lines and endured the indignities of poll workers. Yet they were not cowed. Today is their day. A day when they can look at one another and appreciate that they are truly a part of the history of civil rights in this country.

    There are, of course, major caveats to this theory. If voter ID laws had been on the books in states like Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, turnout might’ve shifted in the Republicans’ favor, as the political science literature suggests. (Nate Silver predicted that Pennsylvania’s voter ID law would’ve provided a net 1.2 percent shift to Republican candidates.) We don’t know how many voters were disenfranchised by voter ID laws in states like Kansas and Tennessee or didn’t vote in Florida because of long lines or a felony conviction or were forced to cast a provisional ballot in Ohio that will not be counted. Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act could be invalidated by the Supreme Court, which would be a devastating setback for voting rights, and new voting restrictions that were temporarily blocked in state courts could be ultimately upheld.

    But, for now, the momentum is shifting away from the GOP when it comes to voting rights. For the first time, in Minnesota, voters defeated a photo ID ballot initiative


    Also gratifying: The youth vote didn’t fade away. They too came out even stronger than in 2008 and still went Dem. Looks like they aren’t defaulting to lazy about voting in presidential elections even if the dramatic thrill of 2008 has waned.  Midterms get lower turn out in general, not just among youth and minorities, so perhaps the GOP pinned too much hope on the 2010 election in configuring it’s “adjusted”  likely voter models. Maybe grumpy old Republican white voters just tend to be over-represented in midterms. Dems definitely need to work harder on that.

    Still, it’s Veteran’s Day and the People whose rights they all fought to defend have triumphed over the onslaught of money and suppression, the greatest democratically elected Republic on earth is alive and kicking.

    • harrydobyharrydoby says:

      In the fashion of much of the GOP — keeping the delusions alive:

      Liberals have an inherent but not insuperable advantage: As enthusiasts of government, to which many of them are related as employees or clients, they are more motivated for political activity than are conservatives, who prefer private spaces.

      In other words — restating the 47% nonsense that even Romney tried to walk back.

      But he does recognize that the social conservatives’ habit of extreme intolerance might have contributed just a bit too:

      Most voters already favor less punitive immigration policies than the ones angrily advocated by clenched-fist Republicans unwilling to acknowledge that immigrating – risking uncertainty for personal and family betterment – is an entrepreneurial act. The speed with which civil unions and same-sex marriage have become debatable topics and even mainstream policies is astonishing. As is conservatives’ failure to recognize this: They need not endorse such policies, but neither need they despise those, such as young people, who favor them. And it is strange for conservatives to turn a stony face toward any reconsideration of drug policies, particularly concerning marijuana, which confirm conservatism’s warnings about government persistence in the teeth of evidence.

      He leaves his compatriots with this bit of advice:

      Republicans should emulate Democrats’ tactics for locating and energizing their voters.

      But wait, I thought the GOP base was energized?  Didn’t we hear endless assertions from the GOP that it was the Democratic voters suffering from lethargy and disillusionment?

      George Will should consider retirement, along with just about any GOP strategist over the age of 50.  Even Josh Penry’s column in the Post today was better written and made more sense as a road map to the party’s recovery.  

    • parsingreality says:

      …to the men and women who have served in the military to help make possible this voting despite all the efforts at disenfranchisement.  And to the men and women who stood in line and refused to be cowed.

      Pubs, it’s called “blow back.”

  14. Sir RobinSir Robin says:

    Who should be the Democratic candidates for President and Vice President in 2016?

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