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(R) Trisha Calvarese
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August 17, 2012 07:49 PM UTC
13 Comments
Specifically, law enforcement costs regarding drug tourism? Loss regarding the increase in crime in border cities, such as property crimes and assault/robbery?
And what about the leprechaun immigration and the rainbow shortage and the non-citizen Colorado voters and the other made up problems presented without evidence.
What… About… Those?
REAL issues that are going to happen if Colorado legalizes MJ and none of the surrounding states do not:
A Dutch City Seeks to End Drug Tourism
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08…
Definition of Drug Tourism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D…
And from one of my fave blogs:
Tourist Drug Ban in the Netherlands
http://www.freakonomics.com/20…
Yes…>WHAT….>ABOUT…THIS?
http://www.denverpost.com/news…
http://www.denverpost.com/news…
http://www.denverpost.com/brea…
And that’s just within the past week.
There has been no evidence of crime going up as a result of Colorado’s state-regulated medical marijuana system. Analyses conducted by the police departments in Denver and Colorado Springs found that robbery and burglary rates at dispensaries were lower than area banks and liquor stores and on par with those of pharmacies.
An analysis by the Denver Post and the Denver Police Dept. found crime in areas with dispensaries was down just as much as it was down statewide. In some areas with the highest concentration of dispensaries there were bigger decreases in crime than neighborhoods with no dispensaries.
As for the Dutch…
Officials in the Netherlands have reported that the ban on allowing non-Dutch citizens into marijuana establishments has resulted in significant problems. All of those people are now turning to the underground market, which has resulted in significant increases in crime associated with the illegal drug trade.
What is the financial effect of drug tourism on Colorado if A64 is passed, and people from outside the state travel to Colorado border cities to get high?
IT IS A REAL RESULT – see the NY Times article.
-What is the increased cost for municipalities when they have to deal with the increased criminal activity?
-What is going to be the insurance cost (personal and business) for residents of cities on the border of Colorado that will be selling MJ, both legally and illegally?
-What will be the cost in terms of reduced property value in these border towns when they see the effects of the two points above?
And sorry, this time you can’t claim a bureaucrat working for the State of Colorado is hiding the data or lobbying the legislature….ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION!!
You said it is certain that boarder Towns will experience drug tourism (perhaps similar to the fireworks village on I25 between the Wyoming border and Cheyenne), which may be true or may not. We don’t know for sure because this is the first time any state has tried this.
Your next assumption is that drug tourism (as opposed to all other kinds of tourism) is bad for the state. As if a whole bunch of people traveling here for the express purpose of spending money on a taxed product will hurt us.
You link it to increased crime without evidence. In fact, as colorabble points out, the evidence available seems to contradict your assertion.
Comparing to Europe is an interesting exercise, but you have to recognize that we are not Europe. And it is flawed logic to assume that our outcomes will mirror theirs.
Right now, this issue is polling to pass because most people recognize that Colorado has effectively already legalized marijuana and, contrary to the warnings of the doom-sayers, there was little negative impact. Voters now see our medical marijuana laws as ridiculous and seem to prefer to drop the pretense of medical cards and just let people do it if they want.
And as for the fictional border-town crime that you imagine. Well, if it really happens that way (though a sincerely doubt it will) then the people running those Towns will have to adjust and adapt, just like they do to every other major change in the world. The ones who do that really well will likely thrive from the influx of new tax revenue. And if they dig in their heals and try to fight change and refuse motion, then it may hurt them. But that is up to those towns to figure out.
But continue to waste or pass up millions of dollars while condemning people to incarceration for something that, frankly, has no business being illegal on the argument that some town somewhere might see a crime increase that we have no evidence of and won’t be able to figure out how to handle it, just isn’t an argument that holds any weight with me, and seems not to effect the voters either.
At the end of the day, this it’s a civil rights issue. This is the prohibition of the modern era. It is up the inguinal to decide what happens to their body and what they put in it. And so your question is kind of like someone using “increased costs” to argue against racial integration in the schools back in the 60s. Maybe it will cost more, maybe it won’t. But it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day… We should not be putting people in jail for plants! And if you need anything more than that a justification for voting yes, then you and I simply have no common ground to reach.
(written from my phone. Please excuse any typos)
ANSWER MY DAMN QUESTIONS.
The idea that drug tourism is some mythical public policy debate point is BULLSHIT. It’s a real issue that has to be dealt with when you put forward such a fundamental change regarding a controlled substance.
Either answer the question with “We honestly don’t know what the costs are to a real issue that other municipalities in similar situations have had to struggle with.”
Or go with the REAL answer which is “this is a serious downside to our proposal, and we DON’T want to answer this question because the costs and social impact are going to be so significant that it will kill our chances of passage.”
Doesn’t mean I’m not answering.
The answer that i gave was that this is a civil rights issue and you can’t (or, at least shouldn’t) use potential public safety costs as an argument.
Furthermore, this isn’t my proposal. I’m not working on this, or otherwise supporting it. But i will be voting for it, because the human cost of jailing people who have done nothing wrong far surpasses any potential cost of the potential problem caused the potential situation that you’ve invented for this argument.
If you can’t justify keeping marijuana illegal without using potential indirect costs as you’re justification, then we have nothing to talk about.
This is no different when ColoRabble started talking out of his enlarged ass regarding MMJ and veterans with PTSD.
When I called him on his nonsensical bullshit regarding the Colorado Dept of HHS, and his claim that a “bureaucrat” was illegally lobbying the State Legislature, he turtled up and sent his lawyer in to obfuscate the point and divert attention.
Just like now.
Skiiers come to Colorado every year, Many are stoned. I guess they eat more on the slope and sleep longer in the hotels and miss their departure time.
Students and students friends from all over the US, party in Boulder, Ft. Collins, Pueblo and Colo Springs and get high and buy more pizzas. Or at least that is what i remember when my friends came to Colorado.
Are you forgetting that Colorado has been at the top of the drinking and smoking pot list for over 30 years?
Pot is not new to the US or to Colorado. I grew up here and i have NEVER had a hard time finding pot, especially when my friends from out of state came for a visit…
You could say it is a part of our history and culture. I don’t think you will see any change. Honsetly, have you seen any change since we opened more MMCs than Starbucks?
The initiative allows municipalities to make up their own minds on whether to allow marijuana sales and associated industries. They can choose to ban or not to ban in their communities. If they choose to do it and the experiment works, it works. If it doesn’t, they can still choose to end it.
Unfortunately the far-right coalition government in the Netherlands — composed partially of anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilder’s crowd — doesn’t allow municipalities to make up their own minds. They’ve ruled that Amsterdam can’t allow “drug tourists” because there are problems near Germany or France (one of the most pig-pigheadedly prohibitionist countries on the continent) — even if Amsterdam’s mayor opposes the policy. For them, it’s an “all or nothing” proposition. One thing the far-right of recent times in the Netherlands isn’t collectively proposing, though, is ending the Netherlands policy of tolerance for their own people. Even they aren’t that whacky.
The big problem is still going to be the Feds.
So long as the federal government considers MJ to be a Class 1 banned substance, all of this is probably a pointless discussion.
Should we do this? IMHO, yes. But I think it should be made perfectly clear to everyone in the state if it passes – the Feds will still bust you, and all of that revenue could be confiscated as illegal gains from a criminal activity if the government so decided.