Notable Links



Denver Internet Marketing by Parallel Path

Arvada Boutique Clothing Store Stella B's

That Was Fast: Norton Abandons "Repeal Obamacare" Pledge

by: Colorado Pols

Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 09:29:08 AM MDT


Reading through the second of two posts yesterday by former Rocky columnist Jason Salzman (we promoted the first, click here or scroll down), on the subject of GOP Senate candidate Jane Norton's recent radio appearance with conservative blogger Ross Kaminsky--clearly there were a number of points for Salzman to run down from this interview (we agree, for example, that Norton's rant about municipal building codes is quite peculiar), but about two-thirds of the way into that second post, we found what should have been the banner headline.

"Well, realistically, I don't think you can repeal it, [Pols emphasis] with the makeup we're seeing right now, and even if we were able to put in place conservatives in all the seats, you wouldn't be able to repeal it because of the President's veto power..."

That's right: after campaigning hard on her pledge to "repeal Obamacare" since passage, Jane Norton's pledge has apparently shifted to "defunding," via the normal appropriations process, the fictitious "16,000 IRS agents" Glenn Beck expects in your neighborhood conducting armed death panel patrols any day now. But as much as Kaminsky would like to just blink and happily accept this wholesale reversal as perfectly consistent, "defunding" one piece of the health reform bill is not the promise Norton made--here is what she said in a press release just three weeks ago:

This bill represents the most significant move toward the failed policies of socialism America has seen in more than six decades. Our country must elect leaders this November who will work to repeal ObamaCare [Pols emphasis] and bring real reform to our healthcare system.

Folks, we told you this was coming. When health care reform was finally passed last month, and the Tea Party fringe went completely "A Browning Can" insane, opportunistic candidates like Norton tried once more to channel this unstable fringe rage into something they could use electorally. So she stepped right up and pledged to "repeal Obamacare," and the base cheered her on.

Since then we've watched as the national GOP establishment backpedaled away from "repeal" pledges, and polls started to show the uptick in support for reform that everyone--from longsuffering Democrats to conservative icon David Frum--knew would follow.

And here you go, folks. Only three weeks later, Norton is backpedaling too.
Colorado Pols :: That Was Fast: Norton Abandons "Repeal Obamacare" Pledge
Tags: (All Tags)


That Was Fast: Norton Abandons "Repeal Obamacare" Pledge | 62 comments
For crying out loud.
She's just being honest about the situation, not flip-flopping.

Until Obama's out of the White House, we won't have the Constitutional ability to kill this pig, so, starving it for two years is the most realistic plan of action.

Sheesh, guys.

Bullshit
Same question as I had for Dave: if it was not realistic to repeal, then why did she promise to repeal it? How is this not a backpedal from her original position, even if it was not realistic? Was she simply not "being honest" before? You can't have it both ways.

Yo quiero gobierno medio!
[ Parent ]
And because JeffcoBlue is evenhanded
He will call out every Democratic politician who, when they spend additional time studying an issue, revises their stance on what the best way forward is.

Come on JeffcoBlue (and many others) - trying to make a big deal out of a politician facing reality and revising what the best way to the same original goal is - that just makes any future items we bring up less credible.

There's plenty of great legit points to bring up about Norton. Let's not dilute those with ones that are easily shot down for being ridiculous.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

[ Parent ]
Shit, you mean it?
Ok, that's nice of you. I personally think if a candidate doesn't know if what they propose is realistic, they shouldn't propose it, no matter how much the crazies they want to vote for them support it. It's not responsible, and I like responsible U.S. Senators. Is that 101 enough for you?

And it's Norton's call for HCR to be "repealed" that's ridiculous and deserves to be shot down, which she has now done herself and that's nice of her. You have an odd perspective on these things.

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

[ Parent ]
I prefer politicians that continue to think, review, and adapt
Someone who sticks with their initial opinion, no matter what they learn, is going to do an awful job at anything (except as a talking head on TV or radio).

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
[ Parent ]
Maybe...
...They shouldn't spout crazy crap to begin with.

A woman's health decisions are a private matter between her priest and her husband.
[ Parent ]
Crazy as in nuts?
Or crazy as in it makes no sense from your political viewpoint?

The fact that I disagree with someone does not mean that they are ipso-facto nuts. Sometimes it does. But many times it means we come at issues from different philosophical viewpoints.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, but
There's plenty of people I disagree with politically who aren't crazy because their positions are principalled, just based on different sets of values.

"Repeal and replace" isn't based on any principal, it was the talking point of the moment meant to feed the teabagger frenzy.  Once the Rs realised that repeal 1) was politcally impossible with Obama in the White House 2) meant reinstatement of exclusion for pre-existing conditions and recision from your policy if you got sick.

There's no way they could sell that, so they retreated from their original untenable position.  Taking a position that you're running from two weeks later because you didn't think it through is crazy, as in nuts.

Besides, does it look to you like Jane Norton is making rational political calculations?

A woman's health decisions are a private matter between her priest and her husband.

[ Parent ]
And another thing
Did you click on the link the Guvs provided for the "fictitious 16,000 IRS agents?" That's factcheck.org debunking the one thing Norton singled out for "defunding." Come to think of it, weren't you tossing that number around yourself in an open thread recently?

Would you like to defend it now?

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

[ Parent ]
(crickets)
I guess I was too much of a dick last time. I'll have to go check, did somebody beat LB down for the "16,000 IRS agents" thing before? Is that why he doesn't want to talk about it?

No it's because I'm a dick isn't it? Ok let's pretend that you're not replying to me, just all the other people who are reading this blog and would probably like to see you defend both Jane Norton's and your own citing of this "16,000 IRS agents" BS. Debunked by factcheck.org here:

http://factcheck.org/2010/03/i...

Now please, LB, I'm not trying to be a dick to you. I want to remove the "You're a dick" thing from the equation so you'll give me, and everybody else, a straight answer. Was your, and Jane Norton's, reference to "16,000 IRS agents" a fact you can back up?

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

[ Parent ]
I never mentioned it.
Someone else's talking point.  Now shoo.
[ Parent ]
Really?
I could have sworn that was you. I suppose I can go back and look. Perhaps it was Libertine, and I'll apologize if so.

Either way, "16,000 IRS agents" is definitely what Jane Norton said, and you replied she was "just being realistic."

Come again? Or by "shoo" do you mean you're done explaining yourself?

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

[ Parent ]
What if, and I'm just throwing this out there,
she had been smarter about the situation to begin with?

I mean this bill wasn't passed 15 years ago. It was a couple of weeks. The political situation was pretty much the same. Why did she make that promise? Was it just because she figured her audience of the most right-wing Republicans wasn't smart enough to have thought this through?

I demand that all students get As, that all our oil comes from American soil, that waste and fraud be eliminated forever, and that potato chips stop making me fat!

[ Parent ]
Until Obama's out of the White House
You're going to have to wait 6+ years for that then.   :)
[ Parent ]
HCR will never be repealed
Certainly amended to make it better, but never repealed. Once folks have some legal protection against recision and denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, you think they're ever going back?  

bin Laden is dead
GM is alive
[ Parent ]
Well..
Those are the parts we all agree on, aren't they?

The shame of this whole thing is we could have actually had a bill that worked for a majority of people without creating a gigantic new underfunded bullshit entitlement program that's designed to eliminate private insurance.

[ Parent ]
Not all of us agree
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo...

The ones who disagree are sometimes referred to as "Republicans."

I demand that all students get As, that all our oil comes from American soil, that waste and fraud be eliminated forever, and that potato chips stop making me fat!

[ Parent ]
He makes a good point.
Why should my insurance be higher because you want to weigh 400 pounds and smoke?

There's a way we could have set up special high-risk pools that are subsidized with a high deductible for people like that.  That would keep them out of the low-risk pools and kept costs down.  I'd have no problem paying higher taxes for those subsidies.

But no.  All they have to do is pay a small fine until something catastrophic happens and then they're in my pool, and my premiums are going to skyrocket.

[ Parent ]
LB Read the Preamble of the Constitution (all republicans should)
as it is the one of the requirements of our government...
Health care wont be repealed...

but you and all the other republicans keep going with your delusional repeal dreams...
PLEASE!

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  

[ Parent ]
Ok, genius.
Quote me the part of the preamble that supports your non-point.
[ Parent ]
okey Dokey (you need some help reading.)
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain  and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

http://www.usconstitution.net/...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
also see below.

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  

[ Parent ]
"Welfare" in this context means "HEALTH."
Thus health care.

(yeah our founding fathers were Socialists.)

the stupid... it burns!!!

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  

[ Parent ]
You can't be serious.
When you have to name call, it usually means you're not on solid ground with your own argument.

If you think "general welfare" allows the Feds to mandate the purchase of a private product, you're being silly.

[ Parent ]
mandate with what penality???
car insurance... Yes, is mandated by the states. (that occurred nationwide by using threats to withhold federal highway funding)

Thanks again insurance industry...

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  

[ Parent ]
Not mandatory.
If you don't have a car, you don't have to buy insurance.

Good try.

[ Parent ]
I'd like to see you guys campaign on that
Even most Republicans agree that denial for pre-existing conditions is a bad thing. Hell, even Laughing Boy from 10:07 am agrees (though Laughing Boy from 10:13 am vehemently disagrees).

Boy, I'd love to see the fireworks when THOSE two meet up.

I demand that all students get As, that all our oil comes from American soil, that waste and fraud be eliminated forever, and that potato chips stop making me fat!

[ Parent ]
Those are the parts we all agree on, aren't they?
Are they?

How about the mandate part? That is inextricably linked to the recision and pre-existing condition parts, right? It has to be in order to have any private insurance. Yet, that's the part that I hear conservatives continually fulminating about. that's the basis of Suthers' at the R AGs lawsuit isn't it?

So, people who want no recision or denial for prexisting condition BUT refuse to accept a mandate are really wishing for rainbows and unicorns everyday, aren't they?

bin Laden is dead
GM is alive

[ Parent ]
Not a mandate.
Make it available to them (high-risk, subsidized pools).  If they still choose not to take advantage of it, let them be ruined financially.  Make it painless enough so that it would be madness not to take advantage of it.
[ Parent ]
Sounds like unicorns and rainbows to me.
Show me a country that has anything like what you envision and I'll jump on board, but I don't think you can.  

bin Laden is dead
GM is alive
[ Parent ]
France, England, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands...
Etc etc...

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  
[ Parent ]
Sorry, F69
All of those countries have a mandate.
Every developed country does.

And BTW, England (govt single payer) is very different from the Netherlands (mandatory private insurance) in health care.  

bin Laden is dead
GM is alive

[ Parent ]
I agree, LB.
She's just trying to be a level-headed voice in the GOP. Many in their ranks think they can magically turn this thing around immediately, and she's trying to be realistic.What she said speaks to her actual civic literacy, not some backpedaling. Non-story.
[ Parent ]
Maybe...
You guys could get your photoshop homies at PN to make a hilarious 'dancing Jane' that really turns the tide for the Dems.
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure this counts as backpedaling
If I read this right she's saying they can't get a repeal past Obama for 2 years so the best approach available is defunding. I don't think that's changing her view, rather it's figuring out what is doable at present.

I do think it remains an unpopular position and will lose her the general election - so I'm happy to see she's sticking with the goal of end healthcare reform.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

Uh, bullshit
If it was not realistic, then why did she promise to do it in the first place? Why the hell should she possibly just get off the hook for this?

I love you, Dave, but this is why your interviews suck.

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

[ Parent ]
Because I understand that people can learn?
If Jane Norton came out and said she supports HCR - that would be a giant flip-flop. But if she says that weighing out the odds of what can be accomplished - that's politics.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
[ Parent ]
Maybe I'll get shelled for this
but in all honesty, I think Obama did the same thing when he said he didn't believe the public option would have the votes to pass.

I could be wrong but that is what I remember.  That being said, I find it shocking a politician in this day and age would create false expectations and then backpedal.  Heavens no !

" I will always put Colorado families before the Washington special interests"

Cory Gardner (R-O&G)

[ Parent ]
Very sensible
Not sure if the tea partiers will see it that way though.
[ Parent ]
I'm not really buying the "uptick in support" theory for the change of heart.
I think it's far more plausible that like dozens of other Republicans, she shot off her mouth without having the faintest clue what she was talking about or advocating.

Just a guess, but I think she didn't have any idea what would be involved in repealing this and is now finding out it is practically impossible.

Just a bad case of not thinking before you open your mouth. Problem is, it leaves the impression of backpedaling.


"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

Among lefties who weren't going to vote for her anyway maybe...n/t

[ Parent ]
Try never, ever. Evah. n/t
[ Parent ]
I've been trying...
...to find on YouTube a clip of Farmer Ted looking at Samantha and saying "Aaaaallllllriiiiight!  I KNEW you'd come around!"
[ Parent ]
:)
[ Parent ]
Among lefties who weren't going to vote for her anyway maybe...
Isn't there some political axiom that if you have to defend what you said, you've already lost?  

bin Laden is dead
GM is alive
[ Parent ]
Not to you guys.
If the goal is repeal, the first step, Constitutionally, is to starve it until we can get Obama out of the White House.  There's no other way to do it, really.

First, though, we need to concentrate on the Senate and Congressional races. Horse before the cart.

[ Parent ]
Why dop you ignore the Constitution LB???
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain  and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
do some reading there LB Health care should be funded at least as much as Defense.

But NO you and you ilk IGNORE the rules of our government. only accepting what YOU agree with. Take it ALL or leave.

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  

[ Parent ]
Everyone gets a car, everyone gets a car!
promote the general Welfare

I support HCR. But to claim that this clause in the constitution requires it is a gigantic stretch. There is an infinite number of things that would promote the general welfare - we can't (and shouldn't) have the government do all of them.

On the flip side, I think this clause is a strong argument that HCR is perfectly legal.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

[ Parent ]
Thank You!
Welfare is not providing a car, buses nor trains to citizens. Nor a job nor a house.
but the Word Welfare there that allows for the CDC,FDA,FAA,and NTSB.

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  
[ Parent ]
Pols, thanks for pointing out
that the 1,600 figure (for IRS agents to enforce the health-care bill) is mythology.

Major mistake on my part in not asking Kaminsky to correct this fiction on his show.

Here's the link Pols provided: http://factcheck.org/2010/03/i...

whoops that's 16,000

[ Parent ]
Youuuu Whoooo .... retort LB???
Waiting, waiting???

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  
To which comment?
Car insurance isn't mandated because car ownership isn't mandated.

It's apples and oranges.

[ Parent ]
If you have a car, insurance is mandated.
If you're alive, health insurance is mandated.


Exercise your right to peaceably assemble and reclaim the commons. Stop the militarization of America.
[ Parent ]
By whom?
God?  

Certainly not the Constitution.

Owning a car is not a mandatory exercise.  

[ Parent ]
Nor is the HC "Mandate".
as without penalty. the "mandate" has no teeth.

on even better news. Birthers have a problem.
http://coloradoindependent.com...

ahhh justice.  

"Fake but accurate!" ~GOPwarrior "infrastructure,whatever that is." ~bjwilson83 "You leftist DICK!" ~ Laughing Boy
See you at the polls you dumb bastard.~Libertad  

[ Parent ]
It's not surprising...
...that our politically-ADD culture is getting ready to move on from health care reform. The expected right-wing anger is subsiding quickly, and candidates like Norton and Suthers have cornered themselves on the far, far right on this issue. It may be really difficult to backpedal out of this one, and we can hope that's true.  
Keep thinking that.

[ Parent ]
I love graphs

Oh noes how will we recovers!?!?

On a serious note, pretty much every President's approval rating tends to go down. Here's another one.



I demand that all students get As, that all our oil comes from American soil, that waste and fraud be eliminated forever, and that potato chips stop making me fat!

[ Parent ]
'Cept the Big Dog
n/t

This is serious, you commie dolt  --davebarnes, 2012.
[ Parent ]
Does stand out doesn't it?
Nice graph sxp....but did you have to show this much data to LB? His head must be exploding. Wouldn't want that. He's too much fun.  

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble and reclaim the commons. Stop the militarization of America.
[ Parent ]
My head doesn't explode.
Politics is fun, but it's not the end-all-be-all.

I'd love to have dinner or play golf with Clinton.  He seems brilliant and interesting.  In fact, I'd so much rather have BC as Pres. than this goof that's there now I can't tell you.  At least BC had a whiff of a grip on foreign policy.

[ Parent ]
you voted for that goof !
Obama knows a shit ton about foreign policy - you just don't agree with him.

" I will always put Colorado families before the Washington special interests"

Cory Gardner (R-O&G)
[ Parent ]
That Was Fast: Norton Abandons "Repeal Obamacare" Pledge | 62 comments
Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?






Advertise Here!
ads@coloradopols.com


Active Users
Currently 6 user(s) logged on.

Search




Advanced Search


Colorado Pols Network


Jeffco Pols
Lakewood Legislators to Host Civil Unions Town Hall on Saturday
Jeffco Pols
GOP HD-22 Candidates to Debate on May 29
Jeffco Pols
Hudak Campaign Kick-Off Tomorrow
Jeffco Pols
  More >

Denver Pols
Pat Steadman, Mitch Morrissey Trade Barbs on SB-163
Denver Pols
Denver's Jeff Shoemaker Honored by White House as "Champion of Change"
Denver Pols
Hide Your Wives and Daughters: Heritage Foundation Rolling through Town next Week
Denver Pols
  More >











RSS 2.0



Pols Gets Mobile: ColoradoPols.com/mobile/

Colorado Pols is on Twitter: twitter.com/coloradopols

Email Pols


How to Write a Diary That Will Make the Front Page



Terms of Use/Privacy Policy



Pols Posting Policies



The Pols Penalty Box



Yard Signs!



The Pols "Mailbag"

Mailbag #1

Relevant Links

The Bell Policy Center

The Big Media Blog

Blog It Right

Blog For Growth

Blogometer

Business Word

Colorado Capitol Journal

Colorado Center on Law and Policy

Colorado Democratic Party

Colorado Ethics Watch

Colorado Independent

Colorado Labor Blog

Colorado Veterans for America

Colorado Legislature

Colorado Lib

Colorado Libertarian Blog

Colorado Media Matters

Colorado Progressive Coalition

Colorado Republican Party

Colorado Secretary of State

Colorado Senate Dems

Colorado Senate GOP

Colorado Young Democrats

Commentary Today

Coyote Gulch

CU Democrats

Curious Stranger

Daily Kos

Dan Willis-Rumors

Dem Notes

Democracy for Colorado

Denver Politics

East Boulder County Politics

Ed Stein Ink

Election Neutrality Now

eleXn

George in Denver

Great Education Colorado

Head First Colorado

The Hotline Political Network

Junction Daily Blog

Left in the West

Liberal and Loving It

Maintain Educational Standards in Colorado

Mount Virtus

MyDD

National Journal

On Call

Peak Dems

Political State Report

Progress Now

Prometheus

Project Vote Smart

Radio Free Denver

Senate Guru

Slapstick Politics

Steam Powered Opinions

Square State

Stygius

TalkLeft

The Thicket

The Hypothetical Wren

ThomasMC.com

Toilet Paper Online

TRACER Campaign Finance

View From a Height

Walter in Denver

Wash Park Prophet

Western Democrat


 
Colorado Pols is wholly owned by Colorado Pols, LLC
webmaster-at-coloradopols.com

Powered by: SoapBlox