Rep. John Murtha dies at 77

Way to post the Copyright...

You might want to try again...

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 14:31:56 PM CST

I'll paraphrase my comment from the open thread now that Murtha has a thread of his own

I know Murtha took a lot of shit from people.  Mostly, the shit started after he came out against the war in Iraq.  But he was my congressman back when I was at Penn State.  He was a damned good congressman for his district, and that's what it takes to be re-elected so many times.

That seat will go R now.  Central Pennsylvania has changed.

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

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by: Ralphie @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 15:24:34 PM CST

Murtha was a fixture for sure....

I'm from western PA (wasn't my Congressman there, next district over), also lived up State College for a while.

No doubt he reliably brought home the bacon for his district, earned him the title "king of pork" (Byrd owns that title on the Senate side).

I do admire him for switching gears and coming out against the war. And his statement several years ago that a lot of western Pennsylvania voters were racist was controversial. But being from that area, I would tend to agree.

RIP - Condolences to his family.  

"There is no question that western Pennsylvania is a racist area"
Congressman John Murtha, PA 12th CD, 1932-2010
Medical care by the best health care system in the world.

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by: allyncooper @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 17:17:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Pork King is right

RIP Murtha, the union flat work you funded meant millions of $'s for Western PA.

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by: Libertad @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:30:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

On the brighter side!

Now that Murtha is gone we will see the deficit shrink by about 10%.  That SOB was one of the largest pork barrel politicians in Washington.

The rest of American wins when Murtha rests!

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:28:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

"the rest of American wins"

If you're going to take the time to come on this blog and insult people at least do it in a way that dosen't make you look like a fucking idiot.

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement" - Jim Horning

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:45:25 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yep

He can just join Fidel in his dirt nap.

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:59:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

He wasn't alone

He had lots of friends and help pushing through his pork.  And he helped push other peoples' pork through, too.

If you think the death of one Congressman is going to change the pork culture in Congress, you need look no further than Sen. Shelby's holds.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:47:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

He was more effective PR then 10 such legislators

I doubt his replacement R or D will do as much damage to America.  Our children and grand children can all take a small breather now that he ain't breathing.

This one event alone will lop billions off the federal debt for years to come.  No exaggeration.  Do you have any idea the amount of interest alone that will be saved now that this guy is no longer in congress?

As you can tell I could care less how Murtha left office - I am just glad he is gone!

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:54:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Have you no decency?

The man died. He served this country in the USMC and Congress. If you can't show a modicum of respect for his service (if not the man himself), at least wait a few days before celebrating his death.

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: Cartesian Doubt @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:49:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

We were veterans of the same war,

though, unlike him, I never saw combat.  I respected him as a man who paid his dues and served his district.  

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by: Voyageur @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 15:48:37 PM CST

I'm with you and Ralphie.

Some of his wheeling and dealing was outrageous. But I never doubted his loyalty to his home district and to veterans. When he spoke about Iraq, I listened.  

--From a "real dick."
by: JO

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by: Middle of the Road @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 15:59:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Does the word "corrupt"

belong anywhere here?

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by: JO @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 16:11:53 PM CST

Not on the day he dies

Nobody will mistake me for a polite and civil person, but I'm not a fan of pissing on fresh graves.

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers

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by: sxp151 @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 16:14:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Classy JO

Just classy.

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement" - Jim Horning

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 17:31:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

his obits in leading papers mention corruption.

.
Its the main thing he's known for, outside his District,
even more than his opposition to the Iraq war, or his Vietnam service.  

If you recall, Robert Byrd's obits mention his leveraging of racism for political ends.  

Obits for Republicans Larry Craig and Mark Sanford and David Vitter will likewise recall what they're best known for.  

Teddy Kennedy's obits forgot his foibles because he went on from his low point to achieve much.  Remember what de Tocqueville said about America and second chances ?  

The way to avoid being remembered for vices is to put them aside and move forward.  Was John Murtha able to do that ?
.

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by: Barron X @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 19:28:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

the dude just died though Barron

can't people let it rest for a day ?  I guess not.

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement" - Jim Horning

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by: Fidel's dirt nap @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 19:34:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Corruption or allegations of corruption

There's a difference.

Remember that Constitution you claim to respect, Barron?

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

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by: Ralphie @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 19:52:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I've touched a nerve.

.
sorry I hurt so many feelings.  

CAUTION:
don't read his obit in any major paper, lest it be littered with details.  
.

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by: Barron X @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:43:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

hear, hear

In Ralphie's world the facts don't really matter.  

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:48:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

At least wait until he's buried

before metaphorically pissing on his grave.

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: Cartesian Doubt @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:51:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No you're not

You pulled the same shit when Kennedy died.

You don't respect the basic tradition of waiting until the corpse is cold before trashing him. A lot of asshole journalists are the same, but it doesn't give you a pass.

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers

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by: sxp151 @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:50:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This just in from Sen. Byrd:

I'm not dead yet!

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by: LakewoodTodd @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:18:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Barron must be referring to

the pre-written obits for Byrd.

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by: RedGreen @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:47:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Uh, yeah

I was wondering about that too.

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers

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by: sxp151 @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:48:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

oh, my bad.

.
don't know what I was thinking.

My supervisor was just sitting here next to me, I was showing her what I had written and what people had said in response,
and she was surprised to learn Ted Kennedy had died.  Honestly.  

English is not her first language, and I guess the subject just never came up in the company she usually keeps.  I assumed that she must have known,  and I assumed wrong.

But that doesn't explain how I made such a goof.  No, I wasn't thinking of prewritten obits; it just felt like he had passed.  I am not predicting his demise, either.  
But I'm pretty sure that any obituary in the Times or the Post is going to make at least an indirect reference to how he first got elected, and I think we all know what organization propelled him into office.
.

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by: Barron X @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:48:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No - he was cleared

Ethics Office Closes Inquiry, recommends not pursuing the investigation against Murtha and two others involved with PMA.  (Roll Call, Dec. 18, 2009).

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 19:06:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I guess we read that article differently.

.
the ones who say those 3 were "cleared" are the 3 Congressmen and their attorneys.  The folks who conducted the inquiry only said that they didn't have enough evidence to assure conviction.
As I read it.
.

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by: Barron X @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 19:33:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It's not conviction

It's an advisory panel to the House Ethics Committee; it did not find evidence for the allegations referred to it.

However, having said that, it also wasn't empowered to look at anything pre 2008, and it didn't have subpoena power.

The FBI never turned anything over on Murtha, though, so we have to leave 'corrupt' at 'allegedly corrupt' at worst.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

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by: Phoenix Rising @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 20:09:27 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Regardless of the politics,

the man served his country at home and abroad. My thoughts are with his family and friends. We can argue about his dealings another day, but I agree that now is not the time to criticize. The man was truly an historic figure.

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by: SheepskinStrutt @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 16:31:41 PM CST

77 year old dies of old age is shocking?

What shocking stories will we have next? Twenty-seven year old newlywed gets pregnant?

I'm also not sure that there will be all that many implications for the Democrats.  It is unlikely that this will make or break the majority that Democrats hold in the House, where a majority can rule with an iron fist, or change the balance of power.  Nobody I know is predicting a change in control in the U.S. House in 2010.

Nine months out from an election, does Virgina even try to hold a vacancy election?  

In a vacancy election, or in an open 2010 election, the outcome isn't much of a bellwether, because the district is so evenly divided on a partisan basis.  Republican wins MA-Senate is unexpected.  Neither outcome would be unexpected in VA-12.  Either way, the race is very likely to leave the House with fewer moderates.  Murtha wasn't a blue dog, but he was no liberal as Democratic members of Congress go either.

It certainly opens up opportunities for a handful of viable Republican and Democratic politicians who want to fill this open seat.  But, the impact that the race has in filling local vacancies created by the winner's election may be bigger than the impact this has on national politics.

The House Appropriations Committee on Defense will get a new chair from the ranks of is senior members from the Democratic party, and Murtha certainly had an iconic role in that process (with both critics and supporters).  This ultimately boils down to the personal style and policies of the new chair.  This means a great deal for the defense industry, but not so much for the Democratic Party.

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by: ohwilleke @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 17:09:49 PM CST

Norman Dicks of Washington State

is the Vice-Chair of the Committee, and presumably first in line to be the next chair of the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee.

This would be good news for Boeing for whom he has been a vigorous advocate in Congress.  It isn't obvious that he has great differences in overall vision from Murtha, on Defense issues, however.

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by: ohwilleke @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 17:31:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Norm Dicks had his ethics inquiry quashed, as well.

.
the article linked in Phoenix Rising's 18:06:07 PM post also mentions him.  

I understand and respect the decision to drop the Murtha inquiry; he was on his deathbed.  

Maybe in Congressman Dick's case the decision was based on an actual lack of evidence ?  
.

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by: Barron X @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:55:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Uh, he died from complications of a gall bladder surgery.

Not exactly an intense surgery these days. Do you enjoy being a dick?

--From a "real dick."
by: JO

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by: Middle of the Road @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 17:40:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Like MOTR

I don't regard 77 as "old age."  

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by: Voyageur @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 18:12:34 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Not at all.

Think Robert Byrd and then get back to me about what is considered old age in Congress. :)

--From a "real dick."
by: JO

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by: Middle of the Road @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 18:25:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Isn't he a Romie?

Being a dick apparently doesn't get you kicked off that team.

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

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by: Ralphie @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 19:53:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

At this point,

I think it's a requirement. :)

--From a "real dick."
by: JO

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by: Middle of the Road @ Tue Feb 09, 2010 at 08:29:37 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Actually Andrew, reports are that he was killed by a medical error

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Mr. Murtha was first hospitalized with gallbladder problems in December. He had surgery Jan. 28 at the National Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Md. He went home, but was hospitalized two days later when complications developed. According to a source close to Mr. Murtha -- confirming a report in Politico -- doctors inadvertently cut Mr. Murtha's intestine during the laparoscopic surgery, causing an infection.

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by: Danny the Red (hair) @ Tue Feb 09, 2010 at 12:22:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Dammit, Marine, you're too tough to die!

Oh crap. We're down to 61 Veterans in the House, and 12 in the Senate.

It's already been said on this website, but the man didn't just
speak out against the useless war in Iraq, he screamed an shouted to anyone that would listen.  

"There is something good and motherly about Washington, the grand old benevolent National Asylum for the helpless." Mark Twain

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by: SSG_Dan @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 18:17:32 PM CST

I sure hope not, but...

We know that the health care legislation that Murtha supported would hurt doctors all over this country.  You don't suppose Murtha's surgeon did the math before he operated do you?

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:24:23 PM CST

Now you're just being an asshole

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: Cartesian Doubt @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:51:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You make Barron X look decent

which is hard to do on the day a Democrat dies. I'm sure he thanks you.

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers

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by: sxp151 @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 21:53:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

In light of the current subject.

Thank you.  I don't think Murtha was decent.

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:10:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're welcome

Sorry you're too fucking stupid to have the slightest idea what I meant.

Fuck off and die.

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers

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by: sxp151 @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:13:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No thanks

I will leave that to the next powerful Democratic Senator or Congressman.  Nature will take care of what the Nation was going to do at the ballot box; a few more and we won't have to wait till the 2010 elections.

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:21:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fuck off and die. n/t

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers

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by: sxp151 @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:22:53 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Leave it to a tea bagger.

Citizens prayer:  "As long as these politicians insist on serving life terms without retirement, please make those terms as short as possible.  Amen"

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by: Michael Dorsett MD @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 22:26:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

for the reasons cited by SXP 151,

.
Gracias.  Obrigado.  Danke Schoen.  Merci.

SXP, you might change your opinion of me after Dick Cheney passes on to his eternal reward.  
Or look up what I had to say about Ray Powers, who is still having a negative impact on the El Paso County Republican Party to this day.  His lieutenants ran roughshod over the common folk.  Under his patronage, the El Paso County Sheriff was an outright crook, stealing from local businesses, and then taunting them to try and do something about it.  

We cannot learn from history that we ignore.
.

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by: Barron X @ Mon Feb 08, 2010 at 23:18:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]