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The Race To Watch

by: peacemonger

Sat Nov 14, 2009 at 07:12:15 AM MST


Tom Tancredo's friend and colleague Congressman Mike Coffman is running for re-election in CO-6 against Democratic challenger, Lt. Col. (ret.) John Flerlage, as well as a new challenger -- the man responsible for closing many of Aurora's libraries. "New Republican" only-recently turned libertarian Rob McNealy, the driving force behind "Citizens for Responsible Aurora Government" was able to convince Aurora voters to vote against their own libraries, defeating a minor tax increase to fund them.  Now, the struggling City of Aurora plans to close half of the city's libraries. School children all over Aurora will no longer have public libraries near their homes or a short bike ride away, thanks to McNealy.  

Now he wants to be your Congressman.
peacemonger :: The Race To Watch
This may be great news for Democratic Challenger Lt. Col. (ret.) John Flerlage who has been building his campaign against incumbent Mike Coffman since just after the '08 election. Flerlage is not the typical Democratic challenger in CO-6 -- he is an international pilot with many aviation industry union endorsements, as well as a well-known friend to veterans, having served as a fighter pilot and combat instructor for the United States Marines. John is also well-received at Chamber of Commerce meetings and sporting events -- something former Democratic challengers in the conservative area were not able to pull off.  

John Flerlage is the first serious Democratic candidate in Coffman's district and is now getting an even bigger break. Combined with a doubling of veterans in the area in the past ten years and John's ability to win them over, and Douglas County continuing to grow bringing liberals from both coasts into the mix, a Democrat actually may have a chance of winning in this formerly "safe" red area.  This is the race to watch, but it's going to need lots of cash to make it happen.

www.FlerlageforCongress.com  
Poll
Will Rob McNeely help Flerlage's campaign?
Yes
No

Results

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The Race To Watch | 110 comments
Good info on McNeely. I've been hoping to hear more about
who he is.

Looking forward to hearing more about Flerlage. He sounds like a good man and I hear he's a sharp guy.

It will take a whole lot more than cash to make this happen. All the money in the world cannot buy you a Democrat in CD-6, not when the voter registration breaks in favor of Republicans the way it does. Perhaps a third party candidate will help Flerlage. Time will tell.

Someone recently posted the registered voter breakdown for the district and the numbers have not significantly moved since 2006. Flerlage is going to need to knock on every single door, need to raise serious cash (at least a million to appear competitive), need to hit voters with fliers in order to get his message out. And most of all, he's going to have to pray for a miracle because he's running in an off year which means turnout will be lower than normal and will impact his race significantly. And the impact is not to his advantage.


"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

Oh No! Math and other harsh truths
Nov 1 2009

Active
REP Unaf DEM Other
198,625 134,017 124,733 1,988 461,351

Inactive
27,158 31,971 16,629 364        76,486

So a quick look based on these numbers, recent turnout, and one or two mystery ingredients suggests limited scenarios for a D to win CD6:

- large D turnout (70% +), low R  turnout (less than 40%)  with U's and other splitting 60/40 D.

or

- Lotsa crossover R's and U's break D.

or
- hell freezes.

[ Parent ]
Apparently, pointing out the obvious on this site
means you hate freedom, you are a negative asshole that refuses to embrace hope or you are undermining the entire Democratic Party. And I'm real damned tired of being accused of any and all of the above.

This blog is designed to talk about politics, not lie about them. If Steve Harvey wants to lie about the chances of this race, then he engages in tactics I do not endorse or support and he does the Democratic Party no favors by pretending otherwise.

It's disingenuous to pretend that this district isn't going to be a serious uphill battle for anyone that runs.

It's disingenuous to suggest that we discard all the knowledge we have about this district and just keep our mouths shut. (Shhh, don't tell the opposition what the numbers of registered voters are in CD-6 and maybe they won't notice! Brilliant!!)

I remember in 2006 when the DCCC was trying to figure out what Colorado districts were viable and which weren't, in order to throw enough money at them to get them over the finish line. Same as in 2008. If the reality of politics is too much for some of the more faint hearted in our party, then perhaps they ought to look at alternative hobbies.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Well, that and
the fact is when the math is against a candidate, that candidate must run with that in mind in order to win.

Note- I'm not speaking about any specific campaign now.  But in order to win, the candidate who is running in a district where the registrations heavily favor the opposition party must meet some of the same campaign objectives as any winning campaign (e.g. 50% +1)  and some that are unique to that kind of district.

If instead  that candidate tears a page out of modern campaigns 101 and says- don't talk to me about the math, your skepticsim is unproductive and I'm going to execute the rest of this plan exceptionally well, I don't care how smart about the issues that candidate is: she doesn't understand the campaign process.  Sometimes campaigns are about voter reg and GOTV. Sometimes, they are about other things, including issues and real policy differences and even expertise.  Occasionally they are about your opponent being indicted for a freezer full of ill gotten cash.  
But when the math is against a candidate and she doesn't acknowledge that by running a campaign that acknowledges that- my skepticism is better characterized as actual criticism and is productive.

[ Parent ]
Respectfully, I think
this is the key to when it is and isn't productive criticism. And, let's face it, it's rarely if ever the case that the campaign requires anonymous (or not so anonymous) bloggers to inform them of the electoral math. It's not generally that a campaign or candidate doesn't acknowledge the math, but rather that a campaign or candidate simply hasn't yet succeeded in effectively addressing it. After all, just knowing the nature of the challenge isn't the same thing as disposing of it. And this isn't a trivial challenge we're talking about.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
my head is starting to hurt.

[ Parent ]
Sorry.
Have a drink, and think pleasant thoughts....

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
The fact is,
I specifically stated that I'm not commenting on the horse race, but rather on the qualities of the candidate, because I consider the most important issue to be the qualities of the candidate. I have never stated or implied what you falsely attribute to me, in your tedious prosecution of your petty personal grudge.

We all know that it's an uphill battle in CD6, and in HD28 for that matter. We're just willing to fight that battle, and willing to debate the utility of undermining it by using a discussion of the electoral challenge as a lever to increase the difficulty of that challenge.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Here is
the other thread in which I discussed John's qualities and campaign. Again, at no point did I ever assert that he wasn't fighting an uphill battle in a predominantly conservative district. Nor did I assert that knowledge and analysis of that challenge wasn't a necessary and useful component in meeting it. The disingenuity is all yours.

But, as I stated on those other threads, the people and endeavors we remember with respect are the ones that did not flinch from long odds, and that overcame them. History is replete with dedicated and courageous people beating the odds. When fighting an uphill battle whose success depends on stirring people to such nobility of purpose, it pays to remind those who will either rise to the task or shrink from it that many others have faced much longer odds and come out victorious despite them.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Flerlage is the first serious Democratic candidate in Coffman's district
Now that's just silly. Or you haven't been around very long -- granted, the last candidate wasn't a serious one.
Who's Hank?

[ Parent ]
Ummm...
I hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure there was a libertarian candidate last time around and didn't help whats-his-face one bit against Coffman. I fail to see how it's going to make one bit of difference now that Coffman is an incumbent.

While I'm sure Mr. Flerlage served honorably, I'm not sure that's going to be much help either. You know, Coffman being a veteran too and all and having basically ridden that into the SoS office and subsequently CD-6.

I appreciate the doom and gloom of number-crunchers for CO6, but...
The difference here is an unpopular incumbent.  Arapahoe County did go blue for the first time in 40+ years, largely because motivated Obama independents turned out.  If we can get the Obama independents the message that Coffman has voted NO to PROGRESS EVERY SINGLE TIME, I think we could surprise everyone.

The other key is veterans. John can actually steal most of the veterans away from Coffman if we hammer how Coffman has betrayed things they care about -- health care, for example.  John is the real McCoy in the veteran dept. Remember Joe Rice winning in an "impossibly R" district?  Linda Newell?  Betsy Markey?

It's possible.

Buck Stops Here.

No to progress, eh?
I think that would probably be an asset for Coffman in CD-6.

Here's a point I think you, JO, Sharon Hanson, and others would do well to internalize: Obama won because by not being Bush, not because people were looking for any kind of radical change. Why do you think we are seeing backlash against his health care, environmental, and economic policies now? During the campaign, "hope and change" was interpreted by conservative Dems, independents, and some moderate Republicans as a hope that Obama would be a change from Bush. This may seem minor and semantic, but his campaign won on being a negation, not on any positive (not meant normatively) idea.

Bottom line, voting "no to progress" is not going to be a problem for Republicans like Coffman because people were not supporting liberal progressivism in 2008. Arapahoe Country went blue in 2008, but unless Flerlage starts putting up some serious numbers and grabbing the middle ground he absolutely has no chance, I don't care how many libertarians enter the race.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
I disagree.
Obama won because he was an awesoem candidate. ANd he didn't win CD6. He did win Arapahoe.  And that victory certain;y included plenty of people voting on Bush fatigue.  But not mostly.
[ Parent ]
Wow, he must be a pretty powerful guy...
"the man responsible for closing many of Aurora's libraries"

McNealy must be a pretty powerful guy if he's "the man" personally responsible for closing all those Aurora libraries.  Considering the fact that Citizens for Responsible Aurora Government was outspent 20 to 1 in the campaign for/against 4A, he must be have some crazy tricks up his sleeve.  If that's the case, perhaps Flerlage and Coffman should both keep an eye on him.

As an aside, it's Libertarian with a capital L . . .  McNealy networks with on both sides of the aisle, but he's definitely not a Republican.

Flerlage Supporters Beginning To Worry
Wow, Rob hasn't even had an official launch party yet, and talk about fear of him entering the race by Flerlage supporters. It's pretty clear now that people who are supporting the Flerlage campaign are beginning to worry, and this story above is a great example of why.  

Is there a reason why Flerlage supporters should begin worry this much, you bet!

A Rob McNealy is about to enter the race where he can be described as socially liberal and fiscally conservative ...kinda takes the wind out from under Flerlage's campaign.

Libertarians don't hurt Democrats
They hurt Republicans. Why would this concern Flerlage's campaign?
[ Parent ]
McNealy is not a Progressive or a Conservative
I did some research and Rob McNealy was named "Connection Maker of the Year" in 2008, so he is well connected in the small business community.

He is someone you will need to watch.  His marketing savvy is bar none. He has over 140,000 people following him on Twitter alone: http://www.Twitter.com/RobMcNe...  

He also has Dems, Repubs, and Libertarians ALL working on his campaign.  When has that EVER happened?  He has the ability to work with different types of people, and that is unusual for a politician.

As this race moves forward, I would not dismiss this Libertarian. Remember, in Colorado Libertarians have ballot access, so McNealy won't be wiped out in a primary and has a good chance of taking votes from both sides of the aisle, as well as unaffiliated voters.

I will be keeping a close eye on this race, you should too.

McNealy
Wouldn't it be amazing if someone ran for office that wanted to lower taxes and reduce government spending......

oh wait there is; Rob McNealy.  It looks like the commenter above wants to keep raising taxes and spend more money the state doesn't have.

It's time for the state to reduce overhead, and I don't see an incumbent doing that. Vote for Rob McNealy, someone who can think outside the box, and make the hard choices that need to be made.

Shit...
The COLibs are here to spam. Really, guys, it isn't helpful to comment here right now. At all, actually. Particularly when talking about lowering taxes and reducing government. I'm sorry, but that's associated with the Tea Party movement now. You can blame Stephen Gordon for that.  

I knew a stripper named Skyler once.  --TaxCheatGeithner
[ Parent ]
spam, no thanks
Spam, i think not, although sales of spam have increased because everyone is broke.  

It's sad you think lowering taxes and closing bloated government offices is a tea party movement.  

I also noticed you whined about my post, yet suggested nothing in response. More empty rhetoric from incumbent supporters, is that the spam you speak of...

[ Parent ]
Incumbent Supporter?
Nope. I'm definitely a Democrat. I would never support Coffman. I don't think Fierlage is going to win this race, but I'd take him over Coffman. Hell, I'd probably take McNealy over Coffman just because I support a broadening of the political dialogue. I'm glad McNealy is in the race because I support third parties adding to the discussion, so long as they differ in their views fundamentally from the Ds and Rs.

I know a lot of the Libertarians who run things nationally. And the Tea-Party movement specifically started by the Ls. I will guarantee you that.  

I knew a stripper named Skyler once.  --TaxCheatGeithner

[ Parent ]
Who's Stephen Gordon?
And can I blame him for anything else?
[ Parent ]
The Race to watch
I am pretty sure that Rob McNeely did not single handed cause 20 libraries to close down. Maybe it had something to do with Voters making a decision on THEIR money. Everyone in this country has to make concessions to their Budget,every government has to do the same.
Rob McNeely wants accountability, be it at city,state and national level. Where is OUR money spend on? Why after spending billions of dollars on bailouts are we still letting Major companies give themselves bonuses, compensate the incompetent people that have run these companies into the ground, and export OUR Jobs that we have financed to other countries? Why is no one that is sitting in a government position questioning this and is standing up for the right of the voters that have gotton them there?
So Rob McNeely comes in and shakes things up, rattles a few tree branches, rightfully so, and everyone runs scared? Because no one wants to admit that they screwed up. Well I hope Rob McNeely does get elected,and hopefully his voice will carry over and other elected officials will see the light and hear us voters scream " when will the bleeding stop" and join him in holding Big Government accountable all the way into the White House.      
Oh That Money
The monthly cost to an Aurora household would have been about one Whopper meal each month to keep the libraries open. That is one each Whopper meal per house each month.  The anti-Aurora library group somehow was able to turn that into being unable to afford the monthly mortgage and losing one's house.

The b.s. about "why so much" $25M was a fine attack point because the pro-knowledge/pro-library group failed to promote the legitimate reason - the libraries had been so underfunded for decades that the hours were cut back and the material needed updating to 2009 standards, not 1981 era funding. The libraries would actually be open for people to use them more than they are used now (which is heavily).

Overall the anti-everything group won by turnout.  The Republican GOTV won the day.  The preliminary look at the numbers shows the Dems did not match the R's ballot returns.  That fear of having to skip a Whopper meal really had an affect on the election, enough to spend the 61 cents on the ballot to mail it in.

In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority. Edmund Burke

10/26/11 Colorado Ex-Pat; S/V Sisu Catalina 30

[ Parent ]
Boo Hoo
You are just upset because the voters chose to elect Fitzgerald and Cleland to be the at-large councilmembers. Right now the voters do not want to vote in any additional taxes because many of us are having to do with less. The fact is the city council knew they would have to find additional funding as far back as 7 years ago.  Why try to find that funding in the worst recession since the Great depression? The only library that is even remotely busy is the Central library. According to someone they see about 2500 patrons a day. This projected out to about 780,000 out of 1.4 million total visitors. That is well over half of the total visitors.

If any of my assumptions are incorrect please post actual numbers and cite your sources.  I was told they do not track individual numbers for each of the different libraries and everything is reported for the system as a whole. I know this cannot be true but they seem to be unwilling to provide the individual numbers for each library.  

[ Parent ]
One Burger Meal Each Month


In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority. Edmund Burke

10/26/11 Colorado Ex-Pat; S/V Sisu Catalina 30
[ Parent ]
A New Voice & A New Set of Ears
Right now, we need a new voice; preferably belonging to someone with an open set of ears.

As it stands now, we've got a Republican who votes like a Democrat.  The Democrats in office want to tax and fee everything despite the sliding budgets of the people who voted them in.  Many of these fees have hurt the poor more than the wealthy; one would think that the Democrats would understand that.

As far as the Aurora Library Tax, I blame the Aurora City Council for putting forth a proposal that was tied to inflation rather than property value and did not set up a separate library district.  Despite the arguments of Aurora leaders, the wording of the ballot measure itself made it clear that the funds would increase the general fund and that the City Council would be in charge of the money.  We've seen that the City Council does not keep its promises.

Those of us who remember the police sales tax money being put to other uses, voted NO.

Many Aurora citizens tried to share feedback with our arrogant city representatives. They ignored us. Our city council-people did not listen to feedback from the citizens - they lost.

A different proposal may have passed.

If you don't listen to the plight of the people and if you are out of touch - you lose.

 

Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

When you create 5 new accounts for yourself
You're not being clever, you're merely looking stupid. We all realize that all of the above posts come from a single person.

With that said, pick one of the accounts Mr. McNeeley and start having a conversation rather than posting hand jobs to yourself.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
My Identity
My real name is Sheilah Thomas (hence the user name ASheila).  

Females, in general, tend to become quite offended when told to give themselves a 'hand job'....that really kills an otherwise decent political argument and it makes any candidate you claim to endorse look bad.  

Does this man represent either Mike Coffman or John Flerlege? I hope not.

Perhaps DavidThi808 should check on the etymology of the word Sheila which, quite literally, means chick.

Cheerio!  

Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
There's just so very much wrong with that post.
I think what's really called for right now is a good Laura Petrie impersonation. Can you do her as well?

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
No...
No..

I can only be who I am.  I can only be Sheilah Thomas.  I'm a voter not an actor.  


Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
Rude politicians
I just realized that Mr. Harvey ran for office. It is amazing to me that politicians think they can positively influence people with rude remarks.  

If you are a politician, you should know that the people who claim to represent you can impact your image and that of your party for better or worse.

Words like 'hand jobs' do offend.  Do you dispute that?  

Mr. Steve Harvey, I'm curious, what exactly is wrong with my post?


Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
Okay.
1) You're one of several "people" who registered today just to post on this thread, in support of Rob McNeely. That suggests to most people that you are very probably a single individual, and very probably that single individual. We all know that Rob's forte is media propaganda, which only strengthens the supposition.

2) The etymology of "Sheila" is uncertain: It may be from the Gaelic for "wise," or from the Latin for "heavenly." What you were referring to is it's contemporary use in Australian slang. That's not etymology, but it may be a particularly unclever attempt at being clever in your choice of pseudonyms.

3) Even if these suspicious circumstances were mere coincidence (always a possibility), the suggestion that a candidate is responsible for what anonymous bloggers (that clearly aren't that candidate) post on a blog that anyone has access to is a transparent attempt to arbitrarily discredit political opponents..., I mean, if you were a candidate in this race. Now, that's rude!

4) David is the least offensive poster here. The fact that he was moved to call you out so bluntly is a tribute to the clumsiness of your subterfuge. It's one thing to post anonymously in order to be able to be candid in your thoughts without repurcussions in your life; it's another altogether to post anonymously in order to deceive others and pretend to be third parties endorsing yourself.

You asked. Personally, I was content to just imply, "Oh, Rob!!!"

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
thank you!


Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Rude Politicians
My name truly is Sheilah Thomas (which should be irrelevant). I know the etymology of my name because I grew up with it!

I can't help but be offended that you think I am a man. I can't help but be offended that a woman cannot have an opinion without being considered a man.  I was not aware that the democratic party endorsed candidates who behaved in such a sexist manner.

May I quote you publicly, Mr. Harvey? This experience would make a good bog post on developing rapport.  

Should I not be allowed a voice because I'm an independent voter?

You also are minimizing the opinion of a voter.  You could learn a lot from listening to the people - again, my original point.

Good luck - you will need it if you cannot mind your image!



Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
apologizes
I apologize for my Freudian slip...I meant blog post....although bog fits...

This is unbelievable!  Goodness....

Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
You're most welcome to quote me
as long as you quote me accurately. Since your paraphrasings are not accurate, and you have been informed that they are not accurate, it would probably be a good idea to stick with direct quotes.

You know, of course, that the reason why I, and others, suspected that you're a man, and one particular man at that, had nothing to do with your expressing your opinions. Many women here express their opinions, and none of us think they are men. If our suspicions were mistaken, so be it: I stated outright that they might be. There is nothing insulting about drawing reasonable tentative conclusions based on available information.

All opinions should be expressed, honestly and without attempts at subterfuge. One thing is nearly certain from your posts: You will try any strategem you can grab hold of to score cheap and substanceless rhetorical points.

Not only are you entitled to have a voice, but you are also entitled to be subjected to the scrutiny of other people who have voices as well. Get used to it.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Mr. Harvey
Thank you.

I will cut and paste your response in its entirety in my blog entry. I like direct quotes because they are easier to work with.

However, as a politician, you should know that you are the one who is open to scrutiny (not the voters).

In my posting, I simply explained why I felt that 4A failed.  I also explained why I am no longer a Democrat. I DID expressed concern with the language. It would appear that other people made assumptions and ran with them.

If you want to stay on your soapbox, here is your opportunity.  

In what way is my paraphrasing wrong?

Please define my "strategem"?

I'm listening.  

You should too.



Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
In a democracy, the people are sovereign.
In Colorado, we believe in a citizen legislature, paying our state legislators far less than the medium income ($30,000/year). I'm just a citizen participating in my state's public sphere, just like anyone else. And we are all open to scrutiny when we act in that capacity.

I've already pointed out one instance of your paraphrasing (or the conlusion implicit in your paraphrasing) being wrong. That will just have to suffice.

What appear to me as strategems include: 1) implying malicious intent when only reason was applied; 2) making accusations of sexism when no sexism was evident; 3) generally using indignation to deflect attention from deception (a tactic so common and shallow as to be almost a cliche), 4) being part of, or coincidental to, an organized effort (whether of one person posing as several, or, as now seems to be the case, several coordinated for the purpose), to flood this thread with whipped-up support for Rob McNeely, and then claiming not to be; 5) trying to exploit a supposed populist sentiment among readers by emphasizing the distinction between "politician" and "voter," and cynically playing on populist cliches associated with that distinction.

Now, do I know, absolutely, that these are intentional strategems? No. But the best we can do is to draw reasonable conclusions based on available evidence, and weigh the risks and benefits of acting on the basis of the conclusions thus drawn. The risk is that I have unjustly offended someone who is actively advocating a political agenda that I judge to be destructive to the interests of the people of Colorado. The potential benefit is that I have helped to prevent a deceptive attempt to advance that agenda. I can live with that.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Steve Harvey HD28
Your assumptions are woefully inaccurate.  I generally vote with the Democrats but lately they've been a tad bit out of touch with the plight of the people.

Perhaps I should vote with McNealy but I don't like guns.  To be honest, I don't know how I'll vote.

But I know that we vote for the people we like and we are less likely to like people who attack us personally. This particular conversation is over.  If you want to take it off list - Google me.

I will talk about my experience with you with other people, Mr. Candidate.  You have probably left me with the wrong impression, though.  Personal attacks will not help you win votes or influence others.  

I'm sorry.  I did give you ample opportunity to apologize for calling me a man.  

Assumptions are dangerous things for politicians to make.  Be mindful of your image if you want to win.

Cheerio!


Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
Intentionally or unintentionally.
these are rhetorical strategems that you are employing. My "assumptions" were explicitly not assumptions, but rather qualified conclusions. In every post, I acknowledged the possibility of being wrong, since I have no basis for certainty in any conclusion I make about your identity. If David hadn't googled your name and come up with a libertarian woman in Aurora who owns it, I would still be strongly convinced that you're Rob McNeely, because that is a reasonable conclusion to come to. There is no insult to you, or sexism toward women, involved.

Are you insulted when TSA searches your bags at the airport? After all, they are implying that there is a possibility that you are a terrorist by doing so. Of course not, because, after all, there is a possibility, from their point of view, that you are a terrorist! When the stakes are high enough, considering and acting upon such possibilities is not insulting, if it is not done discriminatorily, even in the complete absence of evidence. In this case, the stakes were low (on both sides), and circumstantial evidence actually present. Your being insulted is either an intentional strategem, or just a personal inclination. The fact that I recognize that I have no basis for knowing your gender from your printed word alone is decidedly non-sexist and inherently inoffensive.

The fact that you use the perceived or real transgressions of posters here to indict candidates who are absent and national political parties which all have among their members people far more worthy of criticism than anyone here is also a strategem, whether consciously or unconsciously employed.

To be honest, I never meant to attack you personally: I responded to a poster who appeared to be Rob McNealy, and did so in a short inoffensive post, which you then asked me to explain. I explained it. And, I would have apologized immediately upon discovering the probability of error (as David did), if not for the distraction of how you chose to exploit my reasonable but apparently mistaken conclusion to indict people not present and Parties not responsible for every act of every member.

Another strategem is the suggestion that you would have been more open to me as a candidate had I interacted with you differently: Your posts indicting candidates for "not listening to the people" (i.e., not doing what you and your faction thought they should do) indicates that you, like most of us (unfortunately), oppose all candidates who disagree with you on specific policies that you have formed an inflexible opinion on. Since I'm a progressive Democrat who believes that "listening to the plight of the people" involves intentionally and non-doctrinally using our social institutional framework to address the challenges and opportunities that we as a people face, you were sure to find me objectionable as a candidate under any circumstances.

If you would like to continue this discussion off-line, I am always willing. I would like to apologize to you personally for the misunderstanding. And I would like to come to some "agreement to disagree," if possible. I do agree with you that personal attacks have no place, and regret that that's how you perceive this, though I don't agree that it's my job to make sure that everyone likes me so that I can get more votes, or to carefully avoid ever saying anything that anyone finds offensive.

Feel free to email me at: steve.harvey.hd28@gmail.com

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Assumptions
The only reason that anyone would consider a poster to be someone other than who they portray themselves to be is because they themselves do the same thing. Is this not a rational conclusion? It is called projection.

It took research by someone else for you to think that you could be wrong? Do you not research your attacks before making them? Would it not be sexist for me to say to you to go diddle your pussy or how about take some Midol and talk to me in a week?  All the while assuming you were female.

You may not have meant to attack this person personally, you meant to attack another person personally. This is better, how?

Your methods of presenting yourself on this forum and the way the Democrats in general have behaved since taking control of Colorado and the US have left a bad taste in my mouth since I voted for most of these people. I will never make that mistake again. From now on I will vote the right way and that is with my conscience.

I hope you reconsider your "rational conclusions" and see them for what they truly are and that is projections. Before you begin attacking someone by telling them to "start having a conversation rather than posting hand jobs to yourself." Think about how this statement is going to start a conversation. This kind of attack is not conducive to a conversation that will be productive but one that is rather adversarial.

If you truly wanted to get you point across, you would accept people for who they are and not what you think they are. You would refrain from using the term "hand jobs" unless you were making a reference to people that work with their hands all day.

At least when DavidThi808 realized his mistake, he apologized. You just continued to justify your arrogant behavior. It took you sleeping on it to apologize?

[ Parent ]
I apologized
to Sheilah privately, off the blog. On the blog, I continued to address the issues that had been raised by the interaction, and the strategems of political argumentation employed.

Projection does not imply that all acts of wondering about the honesty of another must be the result of one's own dishonesty, but rather that they sometimes can be. A better explanation for wondering whether someone is who they claim to be, when a sudden deluge of such others registered all on the same day to participate on the same thread expressing the same general point-of-view, is that experience has taught us that people under those conditions often aren't who they claim to be.

Your equation of me to all Democrats, and through it finding a pretext for categorical indictment, is identical to saying that if a member of race or ethnicity or gender X commits a crime, then all members of a race or ethnicity or gender X share in their guilt. It is the way racism and bigotry function, even if now applied in a slightly different context.

You freely attribute to me words I did not use: My commments were never crude or offensive. I never said anything about "hand jobs." After a legitimate question was raised by others, I raised it as well, and then addressed other questions that issued from that conversation. It's an object lesson that someone can wax so self-righteously indignant and engage in intentional misrepresentation, all at the same time.

You are trying to create a narrative, one in which your political ideology is nobler and more moral than those who disagree with you, and you are using a slew of deceptive means to do so. There is a poignant irony in that.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
I stand corrected
From a quick Google I'm guessing you're http://www.meetup.com/lpcolora... and as a Libertarian your support would make sense. So apologies for calling you a sock puppet. (As to the "hand job" comment - that was because I assumed you were McNeeley.)

Is it possible Rob met with a bunch of you, asked you all to blog here, and you all immediately did? If so, having all of you register & post at the same time to all say the same thing was very counter-productive - because every time we have seen that in the past it has been a single person, and usually the candidate.

Anyways, welcome.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Apologies
No, I did not meet with Rob.  

Sorry...I do not remember writing about Rob McNealy in my post.  I wrote about 4A and why it failed.  It could have passed if the Aurora city council wasn't so arrogant.

I do write about the 4A ballot measure when I see a post.

I also wanted to ask the other candidates to listen to the people.  That's the problem with politics, most politicians ignore the people.

I guess my point was lost on Mr. Harvey.



Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
Not at all.
I think I've listened to you with keen attention. I apologize for hearing you more clearly than you had intended.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Mr. Harvey
So, I take it that you cannot answer my questions. I understand.

My primary point is that one should consider listening to the citizens or that person will have a tough time getting elected.  

One should also avoid damaging his reputation by engaging in making personal attacks against others. I've seen so much of this lately and it has caused me to change my party affiliation.

Good luck, Mr. Harvey - you'll need it.  

Any man who has to make his point through personal attacks has already lost his case.

Sheilah T.


Aurora, Colorado

[ Parent ]
McNealy is a Republican in moderate's clothing.
He won the race to close Aurora's libraries because his friend Jerell Klaver works full-time as a social media marketer for him.  They are brilliant in a horrible kind of way.

According to some people I know, Klaver goes around friending people who hate Coffman on facebook and writing to them or calling them, convincing them McNealy is a moderate.  NOT HARDLY.  

Buck Stops Here.

Uninformed comment
CRAG's social media was a minimal part of what we did.  You can go online and see that the Twitter account has less than 100 followers and the Facebook site has less than 100 followers as well. To the best of my knowledge Jerell Klaver had nothing to do with the defeat of 4A in Aurora. Hate Jerell for your own reasons but get your facts straight.

If you have a chance to speak with Mr. McNealy in person you will realize that he is more moderate than you give him credit for.  

You may be old enough to know better and young enough to care, but that does not make you informed or rational.

[ Parent ]
Some info on Rob McNealy
Rob did work with Citizens for Responsible Aurora Government(CRAG). I know, I was the Treasurer.

Rob was neither the spokesperson, treasurer, or the person who wrote the press releases. He is someone who, as a small business owner, realized that this tax would hurt not only homeowners but small business owners as well. The city council did not listen to the Citizens Advisory Budget Committee's recommendations and opted to go forth with this debrucing tax increase. I saw the committees minutes for August this year but the details for the recommendation were not published. You can find this on Aurora's website www.auroragov.org.

Rob saw it for what it was and stood up for his principles and helped me and the others of CRAG develop strategies on how to defeat this debrucing tax. I am now helping him on his campaign for CD6 and would like him to win.

Rob is someone who will stand up for any issue he feels strongly about even if it may not be popular with other politicians. He is someone who I consider fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I mean he would look at every possible way of solving a problem before asking anyone to increase taxes or "fees" and that he believes that everyone should be able to live their life as they want, so long as they do not hurt anyone else in the process.

To me this equates to he has the fiscal conservative nature of a Republican and the socially permissive nature of a Democrat. To me this represents the best of both worlds.

In the past, when going to the voting booth, I felt like I had to vote for the lesser of two evils. I have always considered myself to be more republican when it came to fiscal policy and more liberal when it came to social issues. At 18, when I registered to vote, I registered as an Independent and stayed that way until 2006 when I wanted to vote against Ritter in the Democratic primary. I recently changed my party affiliation again because the Democrats appear to be no better than the Republicans.

We need to get a viable 3rd party in the mix. This would keep the balance of power from shifting from Democratic to Republican and from Republican to Democratic with no real balance of power. The Republicans controlled congress for 8 years and did nothing but ruin the economy. We vote the Democrats into congress and in 4 years have seemingly done nothing to correct this either.  

Rob may be a lone voice of reason, in a sea of R & D's that just want to pander to large corporations, but we need that lone voice. As this lone voice becomes louder, hopefully it will be joined by more voices that look to save our country instead of destroying it.  

   

WTF r u talking about?
Do you have any reason to question John Flerlage other than his party affiliation?
[ Parent ]
WTF r u talking about?
I recently got involved in politics and met Rob McNealy in this process.  I have never met Mr. Flerlage and I do not hold any grudges against him. My beliefs fall along similar lines as Rob's and that is why I am supporting him. As history shows, Democrats usually vote along party lines and if they don't their careers usually aren't to long. Right now I want to create a situation where there are more than two choices for any office. I firmly believe there need to be at least 3 and hopefully even more. Mr. Flerlage is an unknown quantity to me and since I met Mr. McNealy, I will be supporting him in his campaign. I will continue to vote with my conscience and not for one party or the other.  We need choices that are more than the lesser of 2 evils, which is what many people see as their choices when looking at the Republican or Democratic candidates.  Good Luck with your campaign.  
[ Parent ]
I don't have a campaign
but good luck with yours.

[ Parent ]
McNealy is not socially liberal.
He home schools his kids (nothing against that really) and is pro-life.

What exactly makes him socially liberal?  The guy closed more than half of Aurora's libraries, for goodness sake.  Against choice, against women, against school-children, against knowledge.

Give me a break.

Buck Stops Here.

Uninformed comment
Rob did not close 4 libraries, the city council did. Rob cared about the libraries and wanted them to stay open but not at the cost the city council was proposing. Inform yourself on the issue before commenting on it. This 4A was designed to take away the citizens TABOR rights to vote on any future tax increases related to this issue.  It was never about libraries, that is just what the city council tried to make you believe.  They can take the money out of the mandated TABOR reserves to keep the libraries open, if they really care about them.  They know however that the 4 libraries they are proposing to close service less than 1/4 of the patrons that use the library system.

If you ever have a chance to speak with Mr. McNealy you realize that the reason he home schools is because of his experience in the Detroit school system in Michigan. He is not against women, school-children or knowledge. He is pro-life to the extent that he believes the Federal Government should not regulate certain aspects of procreation and this regulation should be left up to the voters in each individual state.

You may be old enough to know better and young enough to care but that does not make you informed or rational.

[ Parent ]
McNealy is not socially liberal.
He home schools his kids (nothing against that really) and is pro-life.

What exactly makes him socially liberal?  The guy closed more than half of Aurora's libraries, for goodness sake.  Against choice, against women, against school-children, against knowledge.

Give me a break.

Buck Stops Here.

McNealy is a conservative posing as a liberal.
One of top conservatives on twitter:  

http://www.kithbridge.com/tcot/

Tea party candidate:

http://www.facebook.com/group....

Google "Rob McNealy", "CO" and "New Republican" and you'll get loads more.

Apparently, the difference between being a Republican and a Libertarian is having friends who are good at twitter.


Buck Stops Here.

"Facebook site has less than 100 followers"
Like I said, Klaver is smart enough to go after voters unhappy with Coffman on liberal sites and groups, then misrepresenting him as a "moderate".

Closing libraries so school children have one less safe place to go after school is not moderate... in my opinion, it is insane.

Buck Stops Here.

Is McNealy working for Coffman?
This may be Coffman's strategy to win since he knows he is a horrible Congressman and Flerlage is the best Democratic candidate for CO-6 in decades.  Get a third person to pretend he is a moderate, win over independents and fiscal conservatives, then quit the race and endorse Coffman.

Don't fall for it Colorado. This smells like Coffman's stink.

Buck Stops Here.

Uninformed Comment
It sound like you are working for Coffman.

I know Rob personally and I know for a fact that he is not a part of anything that Coffman is doing. He does not support Coffman and is trying to win the Congressional race because he sees Coffman as part of the problem in Washington D.C.  

I am working with Rob's campaign, he is dedicated to changing what he sees are the problems in Washington. This is no joke and is very serious.

You sir must be a Republican trying to discredit the other candidates because you know that this year Coffman has some serious competition.

[ Parent ]
Wait, wait, one more!
If you want to see how liberal McNealy is, type in his name and "tea party". Hope you have a chunk of time on your hands.

Buck Stops Here.
My apologies....
I forgot this is a bi-partison blog.  I take back "horrible" and "stink" -- wish I could delete those.  I should have written "ineffective"

Buck Stops Here.
Uninformed Comment
No need to apologize, it is obvious you are uninformed and irrational and most definately partisan. Which party remains to be seen, but based on your comments, I would say Republican.
[ Parent ]
Yeah right...
I am a Republican.  That's funny.  Not in this lifetime or any other... no thanks.

Mr. Citizen -- please tell me your beefs with Coffman, and please be specific.  I would love to have it in writing. Go for it.
We might have some common ground after all.

Buck Stops Here.

Mr Coffman
When it comes to social issues I can consider myself more of a Democrat. It is my opinion that people should live the way they want, love who they want and do what they want, so long as no one gets hurt in the process. This is where me and Mr. Coffman would disagree, although I do not think the current Health Insurance Bill that recently passed the House of Rep. is the right way to go, I do agree the current system needs to be changed. There are certain area's of a persons life the government has no business in and the Republicans normally cross those boundries, usually in a effort to protect us from ourselves.  

I see a need to get new blood in Washington and I think Rob McNealy is that kind of new blood.  He is a small business owner, has been active in local issues and cares about the average citizen, because he is one. It seems like when the R&D's get into office they seem to forget where they came from, what they promised to do and who voted them into office.  In Aurora two of the incumbent city council members got a taste of who has the real power.  You can forget how you got into office, you can forget where you came from and you can lose your seat in congress just as easily.

[ Parent ]
Do Your Homework
McNealy is not socially liberal.
He home schools his kids (nothing against that really) and is pro-life.

What exactly makes him socially liberal?  The guy closed more than half of Aurora's libraries, for goodness sake.  Against choice, against women, against school-children, against knowledge.

Rob McNealy is anti-war, pro gay marriage and for medical marijuana. Those can hardly be called Republican stances.  He is fiscally conservative, but that is the only thing he has in common with the Republican party.

Do your homework about the Libertarian party and it's platform. You seemed to be misinformed.

Coffman and Flerlage are BOTH pro war.  McNealy is the only anti-war candidate running for CD6.  

Maybe you should interview him.  You might have a lot of common ground with him.  


Out of Touch
Very few people of all ages go to libraries these days and even fewer kids ever even visit one or know where it is.  Times have changed and most information for school is now connected from the Internet. Libraries have become a luxury item for the few paid for by all of the taxpayers.

The problem with the library tax is that no one really knew how much it was going to be. The other problem is that unemployment is high and business is down in CO-6 and whether the tax would have ended up being $100 or $200, it could have been the straw that broke the camel's back for many living on social security, unemployment, or some other form of public assistance in this current economic climate. $10 or $20 dollars per month in spendable income removed from every member of the population on behalf of the few could have a detrimental effect on local businesses that continue to employ and be used by the population. Small tax here and small tax there and pretty soon local, state, and federal governments are taking over 60% of everything that the population makes.

Rob McNeally is one of us, lives our life everyday, and, unlike the liberal-conservatives and the conservative-liberals, he understands these things. An increasing 50% of the population now realizes and agrees that another party is needed in order to get the real change that the country needs. If we want things to get better and return to a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, we will elect more people like Rob.

Rob, why don't you just post under your own name?
I typically agree with anonymity (obviously), but in your case, what's the point?

I'm not as sweet as I used to be.
[ Parent ]
Rob McNeally is one of us
Or vica versa.
[ Parent ]
One of us.
Which one?

One of us.

[ Parent ]
50% of the population want's another party.
True. But they clearly don't want it to be the Libertarian party - your numbers are pathetice compared to the Democratic & Republican parties.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Libertarians
There is a trend where many Republicans are calling themselves Libertarians but they are not joining the Libertarian Party, they are trying to change the Republican Party from within. You can call yourself a Liberty minded Republican or Democrat or you can simply call yourself a Libertarian.

Up to this point a third party candidate is usually considered a nuisance or a waste of time.  Times are changing, many people are sick of what the current politicians have done with the country and they want a change.

Rob McNealy represents that change. He has been approached by some members of the Republican party in an effort to get him to join and change the Republican Party from within. Rob refuses to do that because he sees that it needs to be a top - down change and that is not likely to happen any time soon.  So he chooses to make the Libertarian Party a viable 3rd choice.

[ Parent ]
Total "horse pucky"
As hard as it might seem to you to believe, you might find the truth rather different than you talking points.  You actually should visit an Aurora library before they go away.  The crowds might upset you because they exist whereas your who post is a pile of "horse pucky" as Col. Potter used to say.

In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority. Edmund Burke

10/26/11 Colorado Ex-Pat; S/V Sisu Catalina 30
[ Parent ]
Libraries
Ms. Bennett, I am sorry you lost the bid to be an at-large councilperson in Aurora. I am one of the people who voted against 4A and I do not regret it. The fact is that one person told me that at the central library has about 2500 visitors a day. If you project that out over the course of the year it is well over have of the total visitors to the Aurora Public Library system as evidenced in the LRS database. If this is true then the other six libraries handled less than half of the total visitors. Given that the MLK and Tallyns Reach libraries are fairly large I estimate that they serviced around 1/4 of the total visitors. This leaves less than 1/4 of the total visitors to be serviced by 4 libraries.

How is this fiscally responsible?

Please if any of my information is inaccurate then by all means post actual numbers for each of the individual libraries. Especially for the ones projected to close.

Again sore losers resort to name calling, how fitting.    

[ Parent ]
Same Response As Before
Your anti-Aurora, anti-library GOTV won the election. I am pro-libraries, now and in the future. I look forward to the next time.

Also, joining POLS just to immediately troll and deliver the anti-government talking points leaves you suspect for more anti-government horse puckey deliveries.

For your notes, I support John Flerlage.

In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority. Edmund Burke

10/26/11 Colorado Ex-Pat; S/V Sisu Catalina 30

[ Parent ]
Boo Hoo
I am neither anti-Aurora or anti-library, that is just the way you paint anyone who disagrees with you. I have lived in Aurora for the past 8 years and enjoy living here. If the city council had opted to make a separate library district and kept their hands off of it, I would have voted for it. It is my contention that the current city council has been very incompetent in how they handled growth the past 6 years. There was never a plan for lean years or any consideration on how to sustain the growth. The city council relied heavily on the use tax generated by building permits for new homes and issued permits to anyone who wanted one. There was never a plan to sustain the current services, just a plan on how to grow the population. This is where the 2 per 1000 comes into play. Why continue to issue housing permits when you are having budget issues with the 2 per 1000 mandate? Why not cap growth, stop issuing building permits and take care of the residents currently living in Aurora? When you start having budget surpluses then develop a sustainable growth model.

By the way, what is wrong with trying to get people to vote? The pro 4A group outspent the anti 4A group 20 to 1. They phone blasted my house at least 3 times. I received at least 3 postcards and the proponents kept taking down the anti 4A signs that were around town. There were 200 anti 4A signs compared to 1000 pro 4A signs.

People noticed your pro 4A group taking the anti 4A signs. Dave Perry from the Sentinel actually turned people from supporting 4A to opposing it with his negative opinion pieces. The pro 4A people actually did more to hurt themselves then the anti 4A people could have.

Are you going to try to run again?

I guess you like horse puckey, and I like hockey pucks.

[ Parent ]
Will Rob McNealy hurt Flerlage's campaign?
It's seems that another candidate disagreeing with the current office holder can't hurt the Democratic candidate.  Are Libertarians a threat to Democratic Candidates? If you feel they are please explain how?  

Libertarian Paul
Because...
The "opposition" vote against Coffman is split two ways. Coffman will get the support he always has. However, there are those who would never vote for MC who would consider voting for the D. With an L in the race, any opposition votes cast purely in disagreement with Coffman will be split.  

I knew a stripper named Skyler once.  --TaxCheatGeithner
[ Parent ]
Approval voting would be nice wouldn't it.
I understand the divided opposition and I think it's unlikely I can convince all the Dems to vote Lib. Pardon my twisted humor.  Some of us just feel the need for more choices. A lot of folks mistake us for Republican lite so maybe we'll split the Republican vote and Flerlage will stand a chance. He just has to be the largest vote getter not hit 50%. We just have to hope they don't notice our stance on the War, the drug war, gay rights and civil rights in general, bailouts, fiscal responsibility, and a few other things.  Other that those issues we look just like Republicans.

Libertarian Paul
[ Parent ]
I hope they don't vote for the Lib...
If elected, McNealy will undoubtedly caucus with the Republicans. I'd rather have an R caucusing with the Rs than an L.  

I knew a stripper named Skyler once.  --TaxCheatGeithner
[ Parent ]
Let's ask John Flerlage where he stands.
He was very critical of George Bush and how he handled international affairs including starting the Iraq war. In fact, Coffman's voting consistently with policies of Georg Bush is exactly why John decided to run for Congress.  John doesn't need the job.  He is a successful international pilot and leader of marines.  John jumped into the race because Bush and co. destroyed so much of our country, and he wants it back.

Sounds like your side needs to do its homework as well.

Buck Stops Here.

Paul, if you are Paul
I applaud your stance on gay marriage, the drug war, civil rights and bailouts.  We have common ground there.  

On the other hand, Tabor was the worst thing to ever happen to Colorado politically and economically.  It is because of Tabor and the anti-tax extremists are road-bridges are in disrepair, our schools are suffering, and our libraries are closing.  

Tax-avoiding libertarians are not much of an improvement over Coffman/Tancredo.

JOHN FLERLAGE IS OUR HOPE FOR SOMETHING BETTER.

Buck Stops Here.

If you are Peacemonger...
I am Paul.  Roads and bridges can and have been funded.  Gas taxes can do that and the Dems controls all government so pass the bills and fund the roads.  Requiring a government to balance a checkbook is not criminal.  While I have spoken with John Flerlage twice I won't claim to be an expert on his agenda. Both were Chamber of Commerce events and more social than hard core politics.  I believe he supports the wars.  As a Libertarian we see a bit of cost saving potential in shutting those down and spending the money on more constructive items.  Pun intended.  As for documented tax avoidance I'm not sure the Democratic group currently in Washington wants that subject brought up again.  What is Tom Daschel doing these days?  We know what the Secretary of the Treasury is doing.  Glass houses and stones are coming to mind.  

Libertarian Paul
[ Parent ]
Correction
John Flerlage was kind enough to call me this morning and clarify his position on the Iraq war.  As I now understand John is and has been against our involvement in Iraq. I stand corrected and apologize to John for my recall.  To call me and clarify not rant online shows me he is a class act.  Thanks John.

Libertarian Paul
[ Parent ]
Ha!
Yeah, I definitely want this guy in Congress....



I knew a stripper named Skyler once.  --TaxCheatGeithner

Skyler...
I am speechless.

Oh, and "he's not a wanker".

LMAO

Buck Stops Here.

I can't resist....
I can't wait for the bumper stickers.

"Rob McNealy for Congress. He's not a wanker."

Buck Stops Here.

Don't know much about Rob McNealy...

As you might surmise from my user name, my name is Greg King and I recently joined John Flerlage's campaign as a volunteer.  I don't use pseudonyms and I don't really blog too much any more because of the terrible way people talk to each other when hiding behind false names.  I used to blog some under the name of "MorrisonRepublican" but rapidly grew weary of the petty, nasty dialog masquerading as political discourse in our country - mostly from members of my own (former) party.

I don't know anything about Rob McNealy and I don't know much about Mike Coffman other than I voted for him while still a Republican.  I know what Mr. Coffman's voting record is because I am geeky enough to be on the C-SPAN Megavote email distro.  Other than voting records and a few conversations with some of his staff, I can't really say that I know much about Mr. Coffman personally.

However, I do know something about John Flerlage and his sincere desire to represent everyone in CD 6 without regard to political point-of-view.  I joined John's campaign because I see a man not unlike myself that has a vision for making Colorado and our country a stronger, better place to live for ourselves as well as our children.  We see a cleaner, stronger, more competitive state and country where everyone prospers from working hard, not just a few.

This collective vision will be accomplished not because the Democrats are right or the Republicans have the answer, not because the Green Party is a better path or the Libertarians believe everyone will play well with each other if left on their own; the vision will be accomplished because we are all Americans with the same dream of prosperity and advancement for all.  But, we must be willing to work respectfully with each other as fellow Americans and Coloradans.

I know this is the same rhetoric we hear every politician espouse, but it is my sincere belief that if we elect more men and women with the same point of view that John possesses, then we can build pragmatic solutions together as one people, one nation of Americans rather than a nation divided by ideology.

There are many good examples of true leadership in our state by representatives that practice what they preach with integrity and honor, working for the benefit of all their constituents, not just a party ideology.  I believe John has the character, background and ability to be one of those leaders.


--Greg King

Jeeze
80+ comments of McNealy and Flerlage supporters going at it?

Sayre's Law in action.

As Henry Kissinger said
The reason academic politics is so brutal is because it is over such small items. These guys are fighting over who will come in second.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
The much bigger component
of politics is the effort gradually to shift human consciousness, which then translates into electoral victories and policies comensurate with those shifts in consciousness.

Who comes in second may not matter, but what epiphenomena issue from the effort does.

Furthermore, it ain't over 'til it's over.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Epiphenomena
I actually had to look this up in the Websters Online Dictionary.

Date: circa 1706

: a secondary phenomenon accompanying another and caused by it; specifically : a secondary mental phenomenon that is caused by and accompanies a physical phenomenon but has no causal influence itself

What is the physical phenomenon and what kind of unrelated mental phenomenon are you looking for? Do you really know what you are talking about or are you throwing $10 words out there to try to look smarter than everyone else?

I want a Readers Digest answer and not one of your 5 paragraph explanations.

[ Parent ]
The primary (physical) phenomenon
is the campaign/election, and the epiphenomena are the effects that the process has on people's consciousness of the issues that were raised during it.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
A Fresh Voice
I am new to Colorado politics, but now after spending more time in the Denver Metro area, Aurora in particular, and reading some of the comments left above, I feel as an inbound voter in the 2010 elections it was time for me to enter the fray.

1. Of course you should not be anonymous in your postings if you have anything real to add to the discussion - hiding behind anonymity is tantamount to rendering your time tapping on the keyboard totally irrelevant when commenting on a subject. I see this often in smaller online political communities - but again, you marginalize your comments to the point of redundancy when posting anonymously. Just post your name or don't post - I doubt the great Dr. Kissinger makes many points from DrKiss808 (an obvious poke at the previous poster). If you want your voice to actually be heard (therein lies the need if your posting here, goes without saying!), do it strongly, clearly, loudly, under your real name. Otherwise, just read!

2. The argument over the viability of propping open libraries that do not have the necessary traffic to justify themselves as "needed public infrastructure" is, while quaint in these digital times, ultimately terribly misguided and simplistic. This blog posting is so populist in its sentiment, it should make this user feel foolish in actually leaving this posting. Democrats, and social liberals, need to focus hard on return-on-capital when considering any public funds to be invested in government infrastructure. All of us want more teachers, schools, libraries, and the best health care available to all - but that is simplistic. Tax revenue is finite, and it is critical to make judgement calls in where that revenue is allocated. The public funds needed to sustain these libraries - can it be applied elsewhere to provide a better return on actual capital returns, OR, as is the hard case with tax funds, the best "human return" return on those funds, e.g. can those funds be invested into a school, teacher salaries, public health program or be returned (or not enacted in the first place) to the public and better utilized by its citizens in the private sector? Absolutely, the "Whopper-a-Month" per capita tax burden cost sounds appealing when thrown out in a populist manner. But that argument, repeated all over this country, never answers the inevitable next question - what happens when these cost projections become "Three Whoppers" per month in per capita tax burdens? Five? What happens when systemically, social liberals vote in 20 or 40 whoppers per-month? The answer is a tax burden that systemically winds it way over and over again into decisions regarding needed government infrastructure costs. To enact systemic spending changes is to start with a single issue, and Rob McNealy had the rather strong political constitution in this instance to go against a politically tough counterargument and begin systemic change in an area that should be a foregone conclusion to most (I have not seen a fight over keeping unneeded libraries open in a long, long time - I would LOVE to get the actuals on this argument and lay waste to its discussion, but I am very, very wary to take any of the numbers I have even seen written publicly about this issue into consideration).

3. Easy to quickly post that this candidate actually convinced all of Aurora's citizens to vote against their own libraries - harder to actually conduct an analysis of who actually voted against the funding of unneeded government infrastructure cost burdens on the public taxpaying base, why they did so, and what the long-term cost benefits resulted from that decision. Important last note to reemphasize - this measure was enacted not by Mr. McNealy all by himself (wow - my friends, it takes more than Twitter to actually convince a city populous to vote against it's library system - tone down the overblown rhetoric!!), but by a counsel publicly elected by the citizens.

4. Let's focus on issues here, not things like the embedded YouTube video above - it's a funny tongue-in-cheek spoof music video many of us veterans in technology found hilarious. These veterans include people like myself, who have held some of the highest positions in the tech sector since the Internet came to fruition (and have benefited both fiscally and personally from it's advent). Give me three hours and a a computer, and I can give you 10+ items that would cause any candidate's base pause in their unwavering support. I'd love, instead of repeating tidbits found on very simple Google searches to be mindlessly repeated in a very general way here (again, my technology background allows me the knowledge that Google, while an incredible search tool, doesn't actually discern a candidate's stands on individual issues - rely on quoted news sources, and cite your sources - otherwise, again, you marginalize your comments, making them totally irrelevant), to find out Mr. McNealy's actual stand on issues important to the upcoming election, and introduce those stands versus the public stands of his opponents into this discourse.

5. Thus far, I see nothing out of the other two candidates to allow myself, who votes fiscally conservative but leans liberal socially, to believe their views, their track records or their dynamics would lay even close to my personal alignment. I would love to hear any clear arguments otherwise - very open to that. Otherwise, Mr. McNealy has my early vote and support.

Full Disclosure - No, I do not know Mr. McNealy personally, yes I have seen him on Twitter, no he has not asked me to post here, and obviously I make my voice known in a public manner and never, ever hide behind any anonymity. I very much look forward to engaging in Colorado politics in 2010 and would love any constructive feedback! Cheers everyone - let's make these forums a more positive, net-positive place to formulate political discussion, and not have them trivialized by redundant arguments or worse yet, personal attacks (gotta say some of the vulgar remarks above immediately put this posting string into the low-end of what I have seen in CO so far, but am hopeful it gets better - it's a GREAT state, let's make public forums such as these reflect that!).

Troy Jensen

Troy
FYI - Some people have jobs that forbid them from taking political stands.  Not all of us are hiding behind pen names because we want to hide -- we just have to to pay the bills.

Buck Stops Here.
Team McNealy!
"Wouldn't it be amazing if someone ran for office that wanted to lower taxes and reduce government spending..."

Yes!

Rob McNealy is a force to be reckoned with. I've been following him on Twitter for a very long time. I don't just like his politics; I like who he is.

Looking forward to following his campaign.

Terrific.
But, as compelling are the analyses being offered by this little pom-pom squad, the realities of Colorado's Constitutionally mandated fiscal policy and current revenue condition don't leave any more room for either starving our state of revenues, or reducing spending, both of which are pretty well maxed-out. And, thanks to your collective success in that noble enterprise, we have plummetted to near the bottom among the states on a variety of comparative statistical measures of how well we are doing.

Keep up the good work! Go McNealy! We're almost at the bottom! Just one last shove should do it....

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Steve Harvey HD28
Mr. Harvey, it sounds like you do not like the voter approved amendments like TABOR. Like it or not this amendment has kept Colorado from becoming like other states such as California.  Many people say the problem with California is they undid their TABOR like amendment which was called GAAN. GAAN worked like TABOR in limiting state spending of revenues and allowed the government to grow at a slower pace. Would you like the State of Colorado to take 10% of your paycheck and call it a loan? How would you like an IOU for services rendered to a state agency? TABOR kept this state fiscally conservative and this has served us well, especially when this recession hit.  

My wife came up with a great statement. TABOR has turned our politicians from muggers to salesmen.  What she means is that our politicians have to sell the idea of a tax increase because TABOR mandates that any tax increase has to be voter approved. Before TABOR all our politicians had to do was vote on a tax increase, this is where the idea of the mugger comes from. They are not criminals and I am not saying that so do not assume that. The politicians were well within their right to do this at the time and that is why TABOR was voted in.

Politicians would much rather ask for forgiveness than ask for permission.

They would rather raise taxes as they see fit than try to sell an idea to the people that voted them in.

Rob would rather cut taxes, shrink government and streamline services than continue to tax people with increasing amounts every year.

For example, in Aurora the city council decided to give all employees a 1% raise in pay. The reason given by Molly Markert, at one of her town hall meetings, was the city wanted to keep unions from organizing the city employees. In the same breath they talked about budget shortfalls and the need to close libraries and pools. How is this fiscally responsible government?

When corporations are cutting hours, pay and benefits why are our governments giving themselves pay raises?

We need more people like Rob that can bring new ideas in and propose solutions that do not involve increasing taxes, most of which are regressive.

[ Parent ]
Your "analysis" of
the effects of TABOR reflects a popular mythology in service to a blind ideology, not anything that an application of reason to facts supports in the least, nor anything that economists and political analysts agree with.

Running a state is a complex task, which certainly includes agency problems (making sure that your agents, those in elected and appointed offices, are acting in the interests of the principal, those who elected them or rely on them to do their jobs honestly), but also includes many other challenges as well.

You address evey challenge as though it requires a single hammer to resolve, when in reality the intiricate machinery of a modern state requires a complete tool kit and a great deal of expertise.

You can continue to try to convince people that the best thing for us is to completely disable us from allowing professionals to apply analyses to carefully collected and examined facts in pursuit of effective policies. I will continue to try to save those of us who don't wish to live under the tyranny of such ignorance from its inevitable consequences.

Rob may or may not be a likeable fellow, but he is clearly not qualified for any position in public office. Many of us want smart government, not paralyzed government, helping to ensure that we have the high quality of educational and economic opportunities that we have lost as a result of your favored and utterly uninformed policies. I won't surrender the state that we love, and that my six year old daughter is growing up in, to a destructive populism committed to preventing us from applying focused knowledge to the challenges we face.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
You clearly don't understand TABOR
Asking voters to approve new taxes is just a small piece of TABOR. That part is straightforward enough, and it's also not the issue.

It is the rest of TABOR, such as the ratchet-down provisions, that has crippled Colorado's budget to the point where people have had real discussions about whether we might have to sell off public universities just to keep Colorado afloat. TABOR is much, much more complex than just the simple "voters have to approve new taxes" piece.  

[ Parent ]
You have more fortitude than I do.
I only made it to the end of the second sentence before I decided I had read enough.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
TABOR
One thing I do know is that TABOR is not perfect but it is better than nothing. If the ratchet down affect is so bad, why not propose an increase in taxes? I do not remember the state ever proposing a hike in the 2.9% tax rate for some time. If things are that dire, why not take it to the voters?

Oh, that's right our elected officials would much rather mug you than ask for your permission.

If the politicians in office actually appeared to care to do the right thing for the populace, instead of the corporations, it would be easier to trust them to do the right thing.  There are reasons for TABOR and the voters had their say.

The fact of the matter is the politicians spend all of their time devising ways around TABOR or undermining TABOR. I posted a comment about how much easier it is to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. That is what is going on here. The legislators would rather vote on tax hikes than ask the voters for their permission.

Is TABOR perfect? No, it is not.
Do we want to have a runaway government like California? No, we do not.

In Philadelphia, who voted on passing a 2% sales tax increase?
I can tell you the citizens of Philadelphia didn't.
Who determines the property tax rates in Philadelphia?
I can tell you the citizens of Philadelphia don't.
Are Philadelphia's budget woes due to legislation like TABOR? No, their budget woes are due to the current recession.
Would their budget woes have been better or worse with an amendment like TABOR? My guess is probably better.

You can always find economists to say it would have been worse and some that say it would have been better. Depends on who is paying for the study and who you want to believe.

[ Parent ]
As Pols said,
you clearly have no idea how TABOR functions, and what its real impact is. You start out by telling us "one thing [you] klnow," but you know by means of arbitrary assumption rather than by means of informing yourself.

As the detailed research and analysis I linked to makes clear, TABOR is much, much worse than "nothing." It's a badly written and designed state constitutional amendment, incompatible with coexisting state constitutional provisions, strangling state and local government, with devastatingly destructive effects. In fact, local governments, which can vote to get out from under TABOR, almost universally have, because, as John Maynard Keynes once noted, after people have tried all other alternatives, they eventually do the rational thing.

We're not talking about a "battle of experts" here: The overwhelming weight of the evidence, and the overwhelming opinion of professional economists, is that TABOR  is highly destructive to the economic health of a state. You rely on a false relativism to defend a failed policy: We rely on actual research.

No one is interested in your "guess." We're interested in what facts and carefully conducted analyses indicate. If you can't be bothered to at least passingly inform yourself on the topic which you are claiming such expertise in, at least have the decency not to try to impose your pernicious policies on those of us who want to govern ourselves intelligently.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Again
If all TABOR did was restrict raising taxes to a vote of the people, then we would be having a different discussion. But that is NOT all that it does. "Nothing" actually would be better than TABOR, because "nothing" wouldn't be decimating our budget.
[ Parent ]
The Race to Watch
Concerning the candidacy or Rob McNeally:  A vote for Rob McNeally is a vote for Rob McNeally.  Rob is a good man with whom I have been acquainted for some time.  Whether or not my vote is finally cast for him, it will be because he is the best man for the job.  It is weak argument to say that a vote for McNeally will hurt the Republican candidate.  If the Republican loses it is because he is less qualified, not the fact that Rob McNeally is in the mix.  
If the Republican loses it is because he is less qualified
Since when did qualifications have anything to do with who wins elections? Stop joking.
[ Parent ]
More to the point,
math definitely does have something to do with who wins elections, and, while the symbolism of the process may have an important value of its own (thus imbuing your vote for whomever you think is the best candidate, regardless of how it affects the outcome of the election, with some value), outcomes are not irrelevant.

If you vote for a candidate who has virtually no chance of winning, but can succeed in drawing a significant number of net votes away from another candidate in the race, then your vote had no effect on the outcome other than that of diminishing the second (viable) candidate's chances of winning. That's just a mathematical fact.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Um. no
Rob McNeally cannot win this race unless he bucks every recent third party candidate trend. Therefore, a vote for McNeally is a vote that could have gone to someone else -- someone who might actually win. So a vote for McNeally is also a vote NOT for someone else, most likely the Republican.

Like it or not, that's how it works. It's the same way a vote for Ralph Nader was a vote essentially INSTEAD of a vote for Al Gore in 2000, likely costing Gore the election.

[ Parent ]
The Race To Watch | 110 comments
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