Uh, About That Poll...

Before We Get All Giddy About TABOR

Perhaps we should wait for a more 'scientific' poll with similar results. The one thing Republicans know is that an anti-TABOR ballot initiative that fails will only help strengthen it's existence.

It is a strong argument when you can say "The People have approved this time and time again".

I would not put it past the Republicans to publish a fallacious study in order to get a doomed anti-TABOR initiative on the ballot.

We can only hope these results are accurate and TABOR can finally be brought down.  

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by: cunninjo @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 14:46:16 PM UTC

anti-TABOR ballot initiative that fails

You mean like Andrew Romanoff's ballot initiative last year? You're suggesting it was a stealth move to strengthen support for TABOR and cement it forever in the constitution?  

A leader on the battlefield can be a leader in Congress. -- redstateblues

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by: RedGreen @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 23:39:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No...

I never said that all failed attempts at getting rid of TABOR are sponsored by republicans. That is ridiculous.

But, I am saying Romanoff's attempt in the end gave more political firepower to TABOR supporters. People in general are skeptical of polls. So if you say to them, "Forget what the polls say, the people of Colorado have already proclaimed their support of TABOR", it carries more weight than a poll that only surveys 500 people.

Romanoff's attempt, while noble in my eyes, was a huge gamble and we lost.  

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by: cunninjo @ Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 21:24:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Journey With Me Now...

In to a land of coordination.  McInnis gets caught red handed on his plan to use Sean Tonner and his minions -- yes, that means you, Monica -- to launder Phil Anschutz's money through a 527:

Not only does McInnis flip the bird to anyone who questions this as plain and simple coordination, he attends fundraisers hosted by Sean Tonner's employee, Monica Owens:

http://www.politicswest.com/43...

What the hell am I missing here?  These guys are breaking the law, plain and simple.  And they'e using Joe Nacchio's boss's money to do it.

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by: TaxCheatGeithner @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:05:28 PM UTC

how's 'bout this little gem...

the McInnis campaign announced the poll results before CPI did.  

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by: MesaModerate @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:14:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We'd love to see some timestamps for that.

That's quite the potent factoid if it can be proven.

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by: Colorado Pols @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:26:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The internal timestamp on the CPI press release says

Title: Microsoft Word - CPI Poll - September 24 2009.docx
Author: ToddHager

Created: 9/23/3009 3:49.55 PM
Modified: 9/23/3009 3:49.55 PM

I don't have a PDF of the McInnis presser.  If someone will post a link, I'll check the timestamp on that.

This is serious, you commie dolt  --davebarnes, 2012.

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by: Ralphie @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:43:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That should be 2009, of course

I left my glasses upstairs, sorry.

This is serious, you commie dolt  --davebarnes, 2012.

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by: Ralphie @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:44:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bingo, Ralphie

Here's the release (with timestamp) Josh Green e-mailed out yesterday:

From: "Joshua Green" press@scottmcinnisforgovernor.com
Date: September 24, 2009 2:29:23 PM MDT
To: Media List
Subject: Scott McInnis Press Release

For Immediate Release:                                                                                Contact:  Sean Duffy

09-24
09                                                                                                                                                                                                                        303-918-9049

Scott McInnis Leads GOP Race By 28 Points in New Scientific Poll

National Tarrance Group Numbers Show McInnis at 40-12 Over Opponent

( DENVER ) - Scott McInnis has a wide lead of 28 points over Josh Penry in a head-to- head scientific poll that also shows only one-third of percent of Coloradans prepared to re-elect Gov. Bill Ritter.  

The independent poll, conducted by the Virginia-based Tarrance Group and released by the Colorado Policy Institute, showed McInnis with a 40 to 12 lead on Penry among likely Republican primary voters.

"These numbers track with what other scientific polls have shown:  our campaign is the solid choice among Colorado Republican primary voters," McInnis said.  "We have the positive message about how to create jobs and repair the economy - and the momentum to continue to carry us forward."  

The Tarrance Group poll also showed continuing anemic re-election numbers for Gov. Ritter, with 33 percent of likely voters saying that they would support him for a new term, while 56 percent said they would prefer to give a new person a chance at leading the state.

"Coloradans know that Bill Ritter has chased jobs out of our state in the midst of very tough economic times, while raising taxes and fees on Colorado families and businesses,"  McInnis said.  "This poll, combined with other scientific polls showing me as the only GOP candidate beating Bill Ritter, shows that we are in a very strong position - and getting stronger."  

# # #

Any member of the media who received the e-mail from Josh Green at 2:29 pm yesterday can verify this.  

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by: TaxCheatGeithner @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:56:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I want to look at the internal timestamp of a PDF file, if any

If all we have is that email, then the McInnis release was created after the CPI release.

If someone has a PDF, just open it in Acrobat Reader and choose File/Properties.

This is serious, you commie dolt  --davebarnes, 2012.

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by: Ralphie @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:59:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My bad

I didn't notice your timestamp said 9/23.  

Mesa Moderate -- what evidence do YOU have?

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by: TaxCheatGeithner @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 16:05:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I didn't know you were a shill..

TaxCheat are you working for Penry?

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by: guesswho @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 16:59:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If Tax Cheat is then

they should be sued for malpractice, complete idiot!

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by: Suzanne Palmer @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 21:01:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Please call Josh or Mike and ask them if you are helping???

Knock it off you idiot. You are destroying any chance Josh has to win.

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by: Suzanne Palmer @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 21:03:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

shhhhhh!

n/t

This is serious, you commie dolt  --davebarnes, 2012.

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by: Ralphie @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 02:22:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Scooter In His Own Words

Let's go to the transcript to see exactly what Congressman McInnis said about his relationship with CPI's Director, Monica Owens:

WANNA VISIT WITH YOU ON THIS TWO-THOUSAND-AND-TEN GOVERNOR'S RACE...

I'M GONNA RUN FOR GOVERNOR, WE'VE GOT A GREAT TEAM ON-BOARD, WE'RE PICKING UP A LOT OF SUPPORT, I KNOW YOU HEAR THAT, BUT THE FACT IS UHH, FROM CANDIDATES, BUT THE FACT IS WE REALLY HAVE. IT'S GOING VERY WELL.

WE'VE GOT SEAN TONNER ON BOARD, BARB CARD ON BOARD, SHE'S DOIN' OUR FINANCE, SEAN'S DOIN' OUR 5-UH....(COUGH) OR A-527, MIKE HESSE IS, UH, DOIN' OUR DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS, WE'VE GOT BARB McTURK ON OUR VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATIONS,

WE'VE GOT LOTS OF SUPPORT IN THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, LOTS OF SUPPORT IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, LOTS OF SUPPORT FROM, UH, THE LEGISLATIVE ARENA, ESPECIALLY FORMER LEGISLATORS, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH,

ANYWAY, I WANTED TO CALL YOU UP, I'D LIKE TO GET SOME UH INPUT FROM YA, SOME COUNSEL FROM YA, UMMM, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF MOMENTUM GOING OUR WAY, WE KNOW IT'S UH, HISTORICALLY, UHH COLORADO'S ONLY THROWN OUT TWO INCUMBENTS, BUT UH WE'VE BEEN OUT IN THE FIELD, WE'VE DONE EXTENSIVE POLLING, UH THIS GUY'S BEATABLE, I CAN BEAT HIM,

UH I FEEL VERY GOOD, BUT YOU'RE ONE OF THE PEOPLE, ONE OF WHAT I CALL MY "TOP 50" THAT I REALLY NEEDED TO CALL AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT I'M DOING, AND CERTAINLY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR SUPPORT, THAT'D BE VERY IMPORTANT, AND UH I'D BE HAPPY TO GO OVER SOME OF THE OTHER PEOPLE SUPPORTING US,

AND SO ON INCLUDING THE UH, UH THE ALLARDS, THE CAMPBELLS, UH, SEAN TONNER (CONNECTED US?)..., UH, MONICA OWENS IN FACT, UH AND FRANCES OWENS, UH MONICA IS WORKING FOR US, UH THROUGH SEAN TONNER, THAT'S BILL OWENS' DAUGHTER, AND THEN UH, OF COURSE, FRANCES, HIS UH, WIFE, UHH IS ON-BOARD ON AS WELL, VERY AGGRESSIVELY ON BOARD,
I MEAN WE'VE GOT A GREAT TEAM PUT TOGETHER, SO IF YOU GET A CHANCE, GIVE ME A CALL, I'D SURE LIKE TO VISIT WITH YA...303-XXX-XXXX. THANKS. BYE-BYE.

END OF MESSAGE.

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by: TaxCheatGeithner @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:35:57 PM UTC

I didn't know he was such a screamer

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid." - Nietzsche  

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by: twas brillig @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:47:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Monica and Tom DeLay @ a recent Fundraiser

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by: TaxCheatGeithner @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 15:49:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

wow, did Tom Delay get plastic surgery?

and come out looking just like Scooter?

In fact, I just registered
www.veryliberalagitatedpissedoffpeoplewithnoorganization.com
-Laughing Boy

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by: indipol @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 19:24:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Two observations

If this is 100% accurate, and that's a big if as it's posted by TCG.

First, McInnis says "uh" way too much for a professional politician. Especially for a canned message.

Second, I'm not sure what he said clearly states there's coordination. Saying someone is on-board could be construed as saying they support him - even if they do so independently.

Like most of you I assume that there is coordination (which is illegal) based on the above. But it may not be viewed as clear evidence in a court of law.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

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by: DavidThi808 @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 00:58:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

If this is 100% accurate

David, you can listen to the recording yourself and judge the accuracy of the transcript.

And saying these consultants are "on board" isn't the clearest evidence of coordination.

Saying, "SEAN'S DOIN' OUR 5-UH....(COUGH) OR A-527," is.


A leader on the battlefield can be a leader in Congress. -- redstateblues

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by: RedGreen @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 05:29:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

it's that "or a" that gives him a bit of wiggle room

not much, but arguably a bit. Definitely something that would call for a court case and a jury to decide.

No trees were destroyed in the posting of this comment. But a large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

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by: DavidThi808 @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 21:29:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I guess you messed up again Tax Cheat

The campaign clearly sent out the release the day after...You are a complete idiot.

And the firm they used is respected by both sides of the aisle.  

I bet that the information on Bennet/Romo is dead on.  So is Tabor.  So is our beloved Gov.

Get over all of this...it's all real.

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by: guesswho @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 17:04:58 PM UTC

Tax Cheat You are not helping Josh or the Republicans

I am convinced you must be a troll for Mike Hutner and the Democrats.
Nobody in their right mind would think attacking McInnis or Monica Owens in the way you have would actually help Josh.
You are doing more harm to Mr. Penry's chances than anyone else on this site, stupid move.

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by: Suzanne Palmer @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 20:55:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Suzanne is very *concerned* about this.

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by: Emma Anne @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 21:45:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Concerned enough to sign up today, did you notice?

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 21:54:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm afraid so

I usually look when I don't recognize the name. I'm easily entertained.

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by: Emma Anne @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 00:39:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That makes two of us. :)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

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by: Middle of the Road @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 02:25:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]